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Thread: C4R and the Contractor

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    C4R and the Contractor

    Hello all,

    We've been using C4R in the office for a bit over a year now. We love how easy it makes working with different consultants in different locals (live models and bases). The functionality and ease is great!

    I'm curious if any of you have thoughts, wisdom or experience on giving access to the contractor? Obviously I would want to restrict access to only editor/viewer... I know C4R is designed for things like this but historically we have always been a bit gun-shy on sharing our models with the contractor, especially when they are still in development. However, we have a state funded project in which a contractor has been selected early on, we are working to get the project back within budget. Giving access to the contractor would allow them to select portions of the building and get areas and volumes of said geometry. It would also open up a lot of other tools to them as well which I'm sure would be helpful when trying to dial in construction costs. We have a façade with lots of angles and complex geometry. It is proving to be a challenge for them to come up with a number they can say is fairly accurate and that we can all feel comfortable it is not extremely inflated. I think giving them some sort of restricted access to the model at this point would be beneficial. Any thoughts??? Is there a better tool they should be using?

    Thank you

    Blake

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCott View Post
    Hello all,

    We've been using C4R in the office for a bit over a year now. We love how easy it makes working with different consultants in different locals (live models and bases). The functionality and ease is great!

    I'm curious if any of you have thoughts, wisdom or experience on giving access to the contractor? Obviously I would want to restrict access to only editor/viewer... I know C4R is designed for things like this but historically we have always been a bit gun-shy on sharing our models with the contractor, especially when they are still in development. However, we have a state funded project in which a contractor has been selected early on, we are working to get the project back within budget. Giving access to the contractor would allow them to select portions of the building and get areas and volumes of said geometry. It would also open up a lot of other tools to them as well which I'm sure would be helpful when trying to dial in construction costs. We have a façade with lots of angles and complex geometry. It is proving to be a challenge for them to come up with a number they can say is fairly accurate and that we can all feel comfortable it is not extremely inflated. I think giving them some sort of restricted access to the model at this point would be beneficial. Any thoughts??? Is there a better tool they should be using?

    Thank you

    Blake
    Blake,
    I'll let others comment on their specific experience with this sort of thing. What I can say is that this sort of situation is ideal for the new workflow for Cloud Worksharing in Next Gen BIM 360. You could invite the GC into a specific Team in the Design Collaboration module, control the version of the Model(s) that they have access to, and the GC team can link your design models into their own (likely empty) model, where they do the quantity takeoff.

    With cloud worksharing in BIM 360 Team (the thing historically done in the C4R product), there's no good way to get them access without also allowing them edit permission.

    -Kyle
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  3. #3
    Senior Member sdbrownaia's Avatar
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    As long as you communicate clearly with the contractor what state the model is in, ie what you haven't done yet, or what they can't count on as accurate I see no reason not to share it. Have a "kick off meeting" where you walk them thru the model and the project so they know how its set up and what you have and then collaborate with them. In the long run the better they understand the project now and can have input the better. I'm biased as I work with builders and estimators everyday, but even when I didn't I shared my models. I can't emphasize enough though to share what is not done, they can't see what isn't there and they will trust you have done what you intend to have them build. They don't care to beat you up over poor modeling or anything, they will beat you up if you don't give them info they need.
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    We shared a model with a contractor on a daily bases (automated using Clarity, later switched to C4R). Only times they really asked for it was at major milestones and didn't care for the daily, too much of a moving target. They were also more concerned with coordinating the sub trades, so they only needed navisworks files. Occasionally they asked for 3D dwg's for the sub's (sub's request) during construction.

    Contractor also signed a terms of use documents... basically saying you can look at the model, but don't do anything else

    Bit of a rant on C4R here.

    In a nut shell, give them the model. I'd be surprised if they'd want regular updates and if they do, then can really worry about logistics and tools.
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  5. #5
    BIM there, done that cliff collins's Avatar
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    This can have contractual/legal implications. I'm all for it, but check with leadership at each stakeholder level, get buy-in and contractual language in place, and then craft it into your BIM Execution Plan.

    Then move forward and collaborate as much as needed.
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  6. #6
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    Hello all,

    Thank you all for the insight, It is very much appreciated.

    Update: The Owner of the firm feels that giving C4R access to the contractor opens us up a great deal of liability. He says he has had legal counsel that advises against this sort of practice. There was no convincing him otherwise. Not even with contractual language in place. He just feels the pros do not outweigh the cons in the matter. For now anyway...
    Last edited by BCott; April 23rd, 2018 at 06:08 PM.

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    This is interesting stuff. We are looking at collaboration tools as we are split across a number of sites and on occasion need to pool resources on a project. I'm not confident that extending that collaboration to other members of the Design Team is something that would work - both from a legal point of view and for the fact that design is a fluid process that would probably drive other disciplines up the wall (we are architects). Looking further forward I wonder how the BIM Level 3 standard is going to handle this. Perhaps we are also going to be mandated to use IPI - Integrated Project Insurance which would negate the issues of liability and remove a lot of the risks. A contractor that I was working with had an IPI project and all of the parties jointly formed a limited liability company which meant that it was just one big happy family working on the project. It was one of the pilot projects. I believe that it worked well and it could be the future!

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