Donate Now Goal amount for this year: 2500 USD, Received: 2174 USD (87%)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
Like Tree6Likes

Thread: The execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    October 28, 2013
    Posts
    23
    Current Local Time
    03:33 AM

    The execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????

    Hi all
    Excuse me for asking more and more of helping.
    I want to execute the bitumen insulation and I need to calculate the exactly quantity ie the areas.
    I already create the foundations and retaining wall by revit
    I used the paint tool and create material take off for material as paint and finally I obtained the true result
    In this way it took 6 hours to do instead of taking manually by cad 30 minutes
    the problem is:
    It takes me a lot of time to pick many many faces one by one and should split more than 20 faces to paint it with new material as a bitumen to obtain the areas
    could we make it easier ???


    best regards

  2. #2
    JBZ
    JBZ is offline
    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 17, 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    670
    Current Local Time
    05:33 PM
    Please post an image of the result you needed, as it's unclear if a procedural application (thus automatically placed and calculated) could have been had.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    October 28, 2013
    Posts
    23
    Current Local Time
    03:33 AM
    The execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-bitumen.jpg
    we should minus the area of the section of the column from the top of the foundation as a non bitumen area,also the the link area between the wall and foundation, and the bottom of the foundation
    The execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-bitumen1.jpg
    we should paint the basis of the column to 30 cm
    thanks in advanced

  4. #4
    JBZ
    JBZ is offline
    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 17, 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    670
    Current Local Time
    05:33 PM
    Most, probably well over 90-98% should be done by creating wall, floor, column types with the necessary material in their construction and then only the few items, such as the stair you have painted would need such manual applications, from what I can see... Set the wrapping to send the material around the exposed edges too...

    Something to think about:
    1) If you do a given task several times (and think there 'must be' a better way; there probably is!!!)
    2) Try to divorce yourself from Acad processes, as they will most always be wrong in a BIM/Revit process.

  5. #5
    Mr. Revit OpEd
    Join Date
    December 14, 2010
    Posts
    2,977
    Current Local Time
    05:33 PM
    I've attached a mockup, using schedules you can probably get really close a to a useful number without dealing with materials at all. I just used calculations to arrive at surface area values for bitumen.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-bitumencalcs.jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    October 28, 2013
    Posts
    23
    Current Local Time
    03:33 AM
    Thanks Mr JBZ,and you too Mr Steve
    I agree with you Mr JBZ it's better to create elements with material, but we couldn't expect the place of the connection between it, the number of these connections,the area, and the shape.
    if we have isolate foundation and a column on it and may be 1,2,3,or 4 beams connect to it.
    in this case we should minus the section area of column one time and the section area of beam 1,2,3,or 4 times from the area of isolated foundation also the bottom surface of it.
    How could we create material like this ??
    excuse me Mr JBZ in 3ds max we could select many sub-faces by one click and change the materials.
    I think it must be a method to split the face of wall as a categories.
    I usually compare between the progs to arrive to the optimum prog and method.

    The formula you made it " (((Length * 2) + (Width * 2)) * Approx Height) + (Length * Width) " didn't have the point of the section area, and it is suitable for isolated foundation>
    What about the wall foundation " irregular shape " ??

    Best regards

  7. #7
    Mr. Revit OpEd
    Join Date
    December 14, 2010
    Posts
    2,977
    Current Local Time
    05:33 PM
    Floor slabs can be broken down into regular multiple four sided rectangles if there are irregular shapes, they also have a perimeter parameter that can be multiplied by the thickness. That will produce reasonable results for surface area. You can schedule the surface area of columns in a separate schedule so you know how much material to subtract from your other totals, for material not required under columns at footings.

    Some Alternatives:

    • If you prefer to "paint" on materials there is a Split Face tool which will work on floors, foundation slabs and walls but not structural foundations or columns. You could model all foundation elements as floors and/or foundation slabs which would be easier to use the Split Face tool and then paint on the insulation.
    • Yet another approach, you could create separate families for the insulation conditions that can be scheduled by themselves, or at least for the foundations that can't be "painted" with Revit's paint tool.
    • A talented programmer with the Revit API could take into account all sorts of permutations and generate a pretty comprehensive summary (for a fee of course, unless you can write software).


    Without intending to offend, let me ask, are you responsible for purchasing and installing the insulation? If so, I see why you'd be interested in getting pretty close. As a contractor you'll still need to increase the total amount required to purchase to allow for cutting/spillage, mistakes and any material that can't be used. If you are not a contractor performing the work how exacting do you really need to be for your estimate? Surely a contractor isn't going to rely on or implicitly trust your count anyway, it's their business and profit/loss on the line.

    Lastly, fwiw... I didn't mock up my example to do all the work for you. It's just for you to consider. It's your project and circumstance to resolve to your satisfaction.
    Last edited by Steve_Stafford; November 9th, 2013 at 06:33 AM.

  8. #8
    French Moderator jbenoit44's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 7, 2010
    Location
    Nantes, France
    Posts
    1,380
    Current Local Time
    02:33 AM
    Some pictures worth many words. I use in this case some nice property of masses.

    Steps I take:

    1-create a mass the shape you want to act like a "paint bath" for your elements

    2-write down the surface area of the mass for future reference

    3-join the geometry by picking object first, mass second

    4-you now have the full area of the joined geometry

    5-subtract footing area and you're done.

    should take less than 10'. Revit rocks.




    The execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-09-11-2013-20-37-07.jpgThe execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-09-11-2013-20-37-20.jpgThe execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-09-11-2013-20-40-11.jpgThe execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-09-11-2013-20-40-20.jpg
    snowyweston, lucis29, JBZ and 1 others like this.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    October 28, 2013
    Posts
    23
    Current Local Time
    03:33 AM
    Thanks Mr Steve
    OK, I agree with you that there is a way to do that but still very long,of course it is better than the paint tools.
    The idea is that I used to make it perfect and pretty close far from the benefit.
    I know that " Surely a contractor isn't going to rely on or implicitly trust your count anyway" and I make the calculating by Autocad ,really accurate,but I want to do that by revit if we can.
    The near future I think we will rely on revit and just revit, so I try to prepare myself.
    the best way to do anything is doing it perfect and knowing how you make it accurate,then you can do it as you want as a contractor or not.
    very thanks and best regards
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks Mr jbenoit44
    It's very good and clever idea for calculating by this way

    I made this:
    The execution of the bitumen insulation in revit ????-test3.jpg
    and I made schedule / quantity but the result was bad , the difference area between two mass's before and after didn't equal to the area of the original element.
    could you please test it by yourself
    best regards
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Eng.N.3D.All; November 11th, 2013 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    October 28, 2013
    Posts
    23
    Current Local Time
    03:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jbenoit44 View Post
    Some pictures worth many words. I use in this case some nice property of masses.

    Steps I take:

    1-create a mass the shape you want to act like a "paint bath" for your elements

    2-write down the surface area of the mass for future reference

    3-join the geometry by picking object first, mass second

    4-you now have the full area of the joined geometry

    5-subtract footing area and you're done.

    should take less than 10'. Revit rocks.




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	09-11-2013 20-37-07.jpg 
Views:	66 
Size:	46.0 KB 
ID:	14850Click image for larger version. 

Name:	09-11-2013 20-37-20.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	43.7 KB 
ID:	14849Click image for larger version. 

Name:	09-11-2013 20-40-11.jpg 
Views:	76 
Size:	44.0 KB 
ID:	14848Click image for larger version. 

Name:	09-11-2013 20-40-20.jpg 
Views:	85 
Size:	128.0 KB 
ID:	14847
    Hi all
    Thanks Mr jbenoit44 ,would you please help me again.
    I want to use your way but i have some inquiries, could we change objects to masses,like foundation,column,and beam.
    I want to convert all objects to one as a mass object to make join by one click ???
    Best regareds

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. How to use Insulation in Revit?
    By Nsync in forum Structure - General Questions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: November 1st, 2012, 05:08 PM
  2. Revit Kid: BIM Execution Plan - The Beck Group
    By The Revit Kid in forum Blog Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 27th, 2012, 06:15 PM
  3. Sticky Notes: LRUG - BIM Execution Plan
    By Sticky Notes in forum Blog Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 19th, 2012, 03:45 PM
  4. Building Coder: Pipe Insulation and Insulation Material
    By Building Coder in forum Blog Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 24th, 2012, 09:15 AM
  5. Revit Kid: BIM Execution Plan (BEP) Examples
    By The Revit Kid in forum Blog Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 30th, 2011, 12:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •