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Thread: Chnage profile of sweep in nested family

  1. #1
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    Chnage profile of sweep in nested family

    Hi,

    I am setting up a truss from a Generic model family. I have also created a nested family to get my ‘panels’ in the truss. Are there a way to access and change the profile of a sweep within a nested family?

    Thanks,
    jh
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  2. #2
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    you have 2 options:

    1. Not adaptive components
    -not possible to change profile on the fly

    a posible solution:
    you can make the sweep from the Truss Panel to be a nested generic model family that will be nested in side Truss Panel and instanciated 2 times with a label on it (family type parameter). So easier to create a lot of Truss Panels

    2. Use Adaptive Components

    -you can draw profiles as simple shared generic models families (you don`t have to use profiles template)
    -nest them in a generic model adaptive family and instanciate them 2 times in paralel planes
    -put a family type parameter on their label fields (the same for bouth)
    -carefully select only theirs segments for bouth the profiles using ctrl+click & TAB key (you can also just select the 2 instances but you can receive an error message in the next step)
    -press create form button
    -create voids to cut the ends as in your truss family
    now play with changing the family type parameter (assuming you have more than one profile in family/project)
    Last edited by gaby424; February 24th, 2013 at 10:41 PM.

  3. #3
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    Thanks,

    I gave the adaptive component a go
    I thought I was going to be cleaver and use pattern based panelling. The problem I have is how do I actually look a component within an pattern based family? At the moment my member only ‘sits’ in the pattern based family ie I can’t lock the ends to the corner points of the pattern?

    Thanks,
    jh
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  4. #4
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    structural framing families are not ment to be nested inside other families (they don`t flex as we like). In your patern family if you select the grid and change dimensions you will see that it doesn`t flex.

    some steps from my head (not in front of computer but it should do it):

    PROFILE FAMILY
    new generic family
    work plane based
    shared
    draw the profile in plan view with model linies

    PATERN
    -the same template as your patern family but empty
    -nest the profile family
    -don`t place it yet
    -select point 1 & 3 and click splin trough points
    -check reference line
    -isolate that diagonal line in view
    -set workplane on the end1 ref plane
    -place a point on the plane in a random position (not the end of the line)
    -choose align tool and tab for end of the line than clik your placed point so the point is now on the end of the diagonal line
    -set the Offset parameter of the point so it detach from the line with some amount (it will be on a imaginary line extension)
    -put a parameter on that Offset value like Extension
    -name the point End1
    -make the same in the other end (it is possible in the other end to have the negative Extension value...you can flip the point)
    -name the second point End2
    -now set the ref plane on point End1 on the ref plane that is orientated perpendicular to diagonal
    -place the profile family
    -use align tool to have the profile in a wanted place (not need to lock that position)
    -make the same with the second point and the second similar profile
    -select bouth profiles and place a parameter (type not instance) in their Label field (Family Type generic model) named Section Type
    -select all segments from bouth profiles one by one using TTAB and ctrl key
    -create form buton to make the extrusion
    -create the voids so you can cut the ends from the extension portion (I think you will use some trigonometry or not...)
    -make the family shared
    -nest it in SURFACE FAMILY


    SURFACE FAMILY
    -place 2 points
    -make them adaptive
    -set workplane on first horizontal plane of point1
    -place a point exactley over adaptive point
    -associate it`s Offset parrameter as Beam Height and enter a positive value
    -do the same for second adaptive point
    -in the end you have 4 points (2 adaptive 2 normal ones)
    -select them 2 by 2 press spline trough points and check reference line
    -in the end you will have 4 reference lines
    -select them all
    -create form button and choose surface
    -divide surface
    -create "divided surface type" parameter named Patern
    -select the surface and in options bar you have a Label field wher you choose Patern parameter
    -select using tab the form element of the surface and make it invisible via it`s visible parameter
    -make the family allways vertical

    In the project
    -load the Surface family (technicaly the beam)
    -place it with 2 clicks like a beam


    to create more section types in project
    -drag and drop your generic model profiles family in the project
    -in project browser search for Patern Family and create new types
    -every new type will have Patern Type parameter set for a wanted profile family
    -search in project browser SURFACE FAMILY
    -create new types
    -for every type set the Patern type parameter for a wanted PATERN family type

    end of story
    Last edited by gaby424; February 25th, 2013 at 01:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    ok
    here is o fast movie to explane the last post
    2013-02-25_1534 - gaby424's library

    the extension parameter is need it only for your real situation to have longer elements so you can cut with voids in the patern family (in the movie, the void part is removed).
    Also the patern family is made only from one diagonal. In your real life situation you will make 2 semi-diagonals so you can have a zig-zag style.

    there is a small view error at the end with rectangle profile (this is because the profiles are placed and drawn eyeballing)
    Last edited by gaby424; February 25th, 2013 at 01:36 PM.

  6. #6
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    Thanks - That is AWESOME
    I can see the potential for using this kind of stuff.

    I did however run into some minor issues.

    1. When I initial create the ‘Generic Family containing the shape - it seems it doesn’t like when I add parameters to it? When I load it into the project to create a new type of the pattern family I get an error. I have attached the C profile I used but with added parameters. When I load this one in it tells me it can’t create the family.
    2. I tried to replicate this using a Triangle pattern but I got some unexpected results – see attached image

    Cheers,
    jh
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  7. #7
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    ok

    attached an example

    If you like to parametrize your profiles than the shape must be created by selecteng the segments not the instances like in the movie.
    Also because you want to change "parametrized" types, you will have a different pattern family for every parametrysed shape (like pattern for C, pattern for H,etc)

    A beam layout can use all the different profiles trough dedicated pattern families per every parametrized profile shape.

    Your exemple with 3 adaptive points is not ok. Better use mine. I`m not an engeener but you got the idea The mid point can be changed via it`s own parameter so you can move it. It`s up to you how you spread the elements on the 2 segments of the beam (if there are 2 segments with different elements orientation). Also you can do the same with triangle pattern.
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  8. #8
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    Hi,
    I have been playing around a bit more with this and I have got a truss that is working. I just noticed that as I have not lined up the profile with the ref plane properly in the generic family - they are slightly off the ref lines in the truss family – easy fix though. I also need to add voids and cut the web members accordingly.

    One thing that I can’t figure out is why the profile of my end verticals rotate when I move the end points?

    When loading the truss family in to a project it seems to be really ‘heavy’ ie it is hard to move the end points and when you change any of the parameters it takes forever for it to update. Is this how Adaptive families generally are?

    The next thing for me to look at is how I can make this truss curved in plan view

    Thanks again for all your suggestions and help.

    JH
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  9. #9
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    sorry for delay (dead lines here)
    the rotating thing is easy to be fix like this.

    move the second point so your extrusion will be rotated.
    set the workplane to the horizontal plane of the (offseted)point where the member end should be.
    select the profile of the member using tab
    choose pick new host
    use place on workplane option
    snap to the point where the profile shoud be.
    voila

    as a note, use the reference line planes when you have diagonal things. this member is not a diagonal thing so use the points for it.(anyway you can still use ref line work plane but maybe you made an error or something)

    about regeneration part...yes adaptive components are heavy. it take 7 seconds here to place one truss. is CPU intensive.

    about curved members it depends how you want the curve defined. It is a spline ore an arc?

    if it is a spline you need a third adaptive point in the midle. Or not, if you don`t have a support in the project for it. If you only want 2 adaptive points use the same method described below for the arc.

    if it is an arc, set the workplane on the horizontal plane of the ref line between the truss ends, and make some trigonometry there for an arc ref line.
    Last edited by gaby424; April 3rd, 2013 at 12:52 PM.

  10. #10
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    why not possible to change profile on the fly. take a look at this: https://youtu.be/q0nf77GN60Y

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