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Thread: Pipe Center Lines

  1. #11
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    i could settle for that. A surprising amount of GC's and Arch's wont give us a model for liability reasons. All that I want is to get a model and for it to be mostly accurate. It seems like if you made it a construction document QC would be enforced on it and you would have one company make sure its up to par instead of each individual company its distributed to. I know were a long way from not have to QC the models before we start working on them but that would be sweet if we could get there.

  2. #12
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    We have some clients who are the Building Owners, and thats one of the reasons we sit in their BIM Kickoff Meetings, but also in a pre-contract-signing "situational awareness" meeting. In that talk, i basically show them what i do in a Model Audit. I explain that- while their Contract Documents may be 2D, on paper of PDF, and thats what is legally getting built, im going to review the details vs the model, and if its different, we are going to make them fix the model.

    It doesnt always go over super well with the Design Teams (i dont care), and thats the tiny percentage of owners in the country/world that i represent. But its amazing: Their projects have very few "gotchas" in the field.

  3. #13
    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    But its amazing: Their projects have very few "gotchas" in the field.
    Imagine that.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    we are going to make them fix the model.
    Do they raise (or try) their fee after hearing this?

  5. #15
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    If any of them have tried, ive never heard about it. And i think i would have heard about it, as we have been having these meetings and this strategy for almost 4 years, as one of my big Owner clients was one of my first five customers, in 2015.

    The only Design Team "up-charge" i know of that was "attempted," was one firm telling my client that if they wanted the model on BIM 360, my client had to may for the BIM 360 licenses. Which we obviously shot down on the spot (thats a whole other conversation).

    In the case of a Design Team trying to raise their fee after we set these expectations, consider a few things:

    1. We arent asking them to do anything that isnt a reasonable expectation for a design team: We arent asking them to model things outside their scope, we arent asking them to make field verification changes or as-builts for free, we arent asking them to over participate in construction meetings. We are saying: "If in a wall section you say this wall is 16" from the column line, it must be 16" from the column line in the plans, as well. And it must be the right thickness. And the slab edge must be correct in the model AND the drafted views." This is not super high fruit.

    2. I would actually love for a design team to request more money to do this stuff. Because my FIRST question to them (in front of the owner) will be "To clarify, we have to pay extra for you to draw your plans and sections coordinted?"

    3. My second question will be "why do you market and advertise the benefits of leveraging a model in design, when your model is (by your own admission) not even close to correct?"

    4. My third question will be "So we are paying a design premium for you to use models in design, but they arent accurate, and then we have to pay a premium for a GC to remodel them for coordination because yours doesnt even have things in the right place?"

    Yes. I *really* (no sarcasm included) want to have that conversation. I cant wait for that day.

  6. #16
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    Imastealthat

  7. #17
    Member johnp's Avatar
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    FWIW, this is technically doable in Dynamo for all views and view templates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gKfFM50wNw

  8. #18
    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twiceroadsfool View Post
    if any of them have tried, ive never heard about it. And i think i would have heard about it, as we have been having these meetings and this strategy for almost 4 years, as one of my big owner clients was one of my first five customers, in 2015.

    The only design team "up-charge" i know of that was "attempted," was one firm telling my client that if they wanted the model on bim 360, my client had to may for the bim 360 licenses. Which we obviously shot down on the spot (thats a whole other conversation).

    In the case of a design team trying to raise their fee after we set these expectations, consider a few things:

    1. We arent asking them to do anything that isnt a reasonable expectation for a design team: We arent asking them to model things outside their scope, we arent asking them to make field verification changes or as-builts for free, we arent asking them to over participate in construction meetings. We are saying: "if in a wall section you say this wall is 16" from the column line, it must be 16" from the column line in the plans, as well. And it must be the right thickness. And the slab edge must be correct in the model and the drafted views." this is not super high fruit.

    2. I would actually love for a design team to request more money to do this stuff. Because my first question to them (in front of the owner) will be "to clarify, we have to pay extra for you to draw your plans and sections coordinted?"

    3. My second question will be "why do you market and advertise the benefits of leveraging a model in design, when your model is (by your own admission) not even close to correct?"

    4. My third question will be "so we are paying a design premium for you to use models in design, but they arent accurate, and then we have to pay a premium for a gc to remodel them for coordination because yours doesnt even have things in the right place?"

    yes. I *really* (no sarcasm included) want to have that conversation. I cant wait for that day.
    fist bump!!!

    *EDIT*
    That was supposed to be all caps. Forum overrides... pft.

  9.    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    The only Design Team "up-charge" i know of that was "attempted," was one firm telling my client that if they wanted the model on BIM 360, my client had to may for the BIM 360 licenses. Which we obviously shot down on the spot (thats a whole other conversation).
    Can you elaborate on this a bit as I don't quite see the logic here.

    Thanks for your time.

  10.    #20
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    What dont you understand?

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