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Thread: Extruding Door leaf on Ref line swing

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    Extruding Door leaf on Ref line swing

    Till now i alwas made nested doors as per Steve's guide lines. Viewing Jermy Roh's videos of BIMetods class 07 & 08 on You Tube I made solid leaf by extruding upward up to height in plan view (provided thickness Param during sketch mode) over ref. line swing (property shows extrusion up to 7'). I save the file & closed. Next time open the file change the swing angle to 90 degree, open the left elevation, selected the extruted leaf and clicked to "Edit Extrusion". Revit allowed to edit the extrusion in elevation view (Now property shows extrusion up to thickness). I edited the extrusion & made a Stile n Rail door leaf as per video. All things floated smoothly.
    After few days Again I strted a new file, made a 3D solid adjustable swing by extruding on ref line in plan view by the same sequences, save the file closed & reopened to edit extrusion in left elevation view. This time Revit did not allow me to edit in left elevation view & sugested to open ref level plan view. After that I tried so many attempts for 3D Inswing as well as out swing but never sucsseeded.
    Can any user find out the reasons ? 3 files are attached +2 more files of multilites door leaf (earlier made per Steve's guide lines) made over ref line swing are also attached. One can view J. Roh videos of class 07 & 08 of BIMethods Fall 13 on you Tube.
    I asked J.Roh about this incident through email.
    He replied "While in a plan view...When you select "Create" and "Extrusion", before making the extrusion, click on "Set" in the "Work Plane" Tool Ribbon. Then choose "Pick a Plane" in the dialog box and then "Ok". Hover over the reference line and use the tab key on your keyboard to cycle through the selection options. Select the dashed line that is just a line and not the one that is boxed. As soon as you select that, another dialog box will come up and ask you to choose a left or right view."
    But neither he made the extrusion this way in his class 07 nor myseself. The extrusion was made in plan view & thicness param applied during extrusion & in left elevation extrusion height was raised up to ref plane at Height param.
    No one is interested to solve this mystery.
    LJU

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    Forum Addict elton williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lallanji View Post
    Till now i alwas made nested doors as per Steve's guide lines. Viewing Jermy Roh's videos of BIMetods class 07 & 08 on You Tube I made solid leaf by extruding upward up to height in plan view (provided thickness Param during sketch mode) over ref. line swing (property shows extrusion up to 7'). I save the file & closed. Next time open the file change the swing angle to 90 degree, open the left elevation, selected the extruted leaf and clicked to "Edit Extrusion". Revit allowed to edit the extrusion in elevation view (Now property shows extrusion up to thickness). I edited the extrusion & made a Stile n Rail door leaf as per video. All things floated smoothly.
    After few days Again I strted a new file, made a 3D solid adjustable swing by extruding on ref line in plan view by the same sequences, save the file closed & reopened to edit extrusion in left elevation view. This time Revit did not allow me to edit in left elevation view & sugested to open ref level plan view. After that I tried so many attempts for 3D Inswing as well as out swing but never sucsseeded.
    Can any user find out the reasons ? 3 files are attached +2 more files of multilites door leaf (earlier made per Steve's guide lines) made over ref line swing are also attached. One can view J. Roh videos of class 07 & 08 of BIMethods Fall 13 on you Tube.
    I asked J.Roh about this incident through email.
    He replied "While in a plan view...When you select "Create" and "Extrusion", before making the extrusion, click on "Set" in the "Work Plane" Tool Ribbon. Then choose "Pick a Plane" in the dialog box and then "Ok". Hover over the reference line and use the tab key on your keyboard to cycle through the selection options. Select the dashed line that is just a line and not the one that is boxed. As soon as you select that, another dialog box will come up and ask you to choose a left or right view."
    But neither he made the extrusion this way in his class 07 nor myseself. The extrusion was made in plan view & thicness param applied during extrusion & in left elevation extrusion height was raised up to ref plane at Height param.
    No one is interested to solve this mystery.
    LJU
    Welcome to the forum lallanji.
    Like most things there are many ways to achieve the end goal. Firstly I would try to be successful learning from one method before combining two different methods, I think you're just asking for hurt otherwise. It is a good idea to avoid where possible, dimensions and reference planes inside sketch mode as it can make it difficult to understand if you or someone else needs to edit the family later (doors are often complicated enough already).

    I create my door panel families as an extrusion from front elevation so I can easily control thickness from a ref plane set in plan view with the height reference plane set from front elevation, same as parent family cutting through a vertical wall. Then I nest the panel family into the parent door family and align and lock to reference planes and link parameters as necessary. This way both the parent family along with the opening cut, the height of the (nested) frame and the nested panel family can be controlled in the same fashion.

    I stopped using the 3D panel swing method as I think a half open door looks wrong in project elevations. I still use the nested door swing plan detail with the ability to change swing degrees.
    Last edited by elton williams; December 3rd, 2013 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Added some hard returns

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    Hi Elton
    I too make the doors using ref planes. This time I tried this method. My curisity is about revit's mood. How a extrusion made in plan view changed to elevation mode. All the attached doors are made on 3D swing (extruded in plan view) . Stiles, rail & Lites are done by editing extrusion in left elevation view. How revit allowed me to edit the extrusion in elevation view. I use the proceedure step by step as per J.Roh videos of class 07 & 08. My problem is why this privilage for ones, as after several new attempt I could not get that privilage.
    Thanks for your interest.

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    No one still tried to solve this mistry, even J. Roh is not clerifying it.

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    Thanks for J.Roh who replid with an attached PDFexplaining the process . Fundamenally this is currect as when we extrude in plan view revit allow it's editing in plan view ony & vice versa.
    But my curisity still continue, as all the attached door leaves 3D swing were extruded in plan view by myself & it atometically allowed me to edit in left elevation view on next day, that's why I could made several door leave one by one. It may be software fault, or it may be by chance which can never be repeated.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by lallanji; December 15th, 2013 at 08:42 AM.

  6. #6
    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    Am I the Steve you are referring to? Which guidelines are you referring to?

    I looked at the files you shared. I didn't see anything that would suggest to me that the hosting work plane could suddenly switch from elevation to plan. I have seen people get confused about which work plane is active when they create geometry but even then it is usually obvious something is wrong once they start sketching a profile. I'm inclined to think that an error message occurred at some point and an extrusion lost its hosting work plane; though none of the extrusions in the families you posted are not hosted by reference lines now.

    As Elton mentioned there is more than one way to accomplish something. For example I think your approach is actually harder (more complicated) than it needs to be. There is no need to put the reference line in the panel family to manage swing rotation. If the panel family is Work Plane-Based it can just "sit" on a Reference Line in the host door family. That one step can reduce the effort to produce and use many panels in doors and in projects.

    I've attached a quick mockup of a single door (host) with two nested panels that are just placed on the host's reference line. It's important to turn off the Always Vertical family parameter in the panel families so they can rotate with the reference line. If you look closely the door panel isn't aligned or locked to the reference plane in any way. It's just "sitting" there. It is also important to create the panels so they "grow" away from their hinge point, swing point. Otherwise the door opening size will increase and the panel will too but it won't stay in the correct location. The size of the panel is governed by the host parameters using Associate Family Parameter to connect the nested panel's Width, Thickness and Height parameters.

    The Choose Panel (family type parameter) at the top of the Family Types dialog or Properties Palette (Constraints Group) lets the user change the panel as needed in the project. Take it a bit further, if we make the panel families Shared we don't even have to load Panel B into the door family, just one default panel so parameters can be connected properly. We just load additional panel types into the project directly instead and they become available to the host door.

    Fwiw, the door library that Aaron has shared in another thread HERE are built using this technique too.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Steve_Stafford; December 15th, 2013 at 10:38 PM.

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    Yes you are the same Steve. Thanks for hearing me.
    Your AU class BD21 pdf is still a guide for all to make doors & recently "A Doors Life" is a addition to that.
    Prof. Jermy Roh has placed lots of BIMethods class room video on You Tube. Inspired from BIMethods Fall 13 class 07 to 10 I tried the door pannels on 3D swing & all are working properly except some complicated ones. As you can see the attached pannels 2 similar doors differs in behavier. I tried 10Vx4H Lites pannels by your 8Vx4H pannel in BD21 over 3D swing. One is working fine during changing No. of lites, but the other one looses it's temper.
    Any way thanks alot for guiding me.
    LJU

  8. #8
    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    It sounds to me like you are asking help for a different problem now?

    I'm not sure which family you say isn't behaving. I looked at each of them and it looks like the one called Door Leaf MulliOff10Vx4H_ Lites StileRail_BD21Adj InSwings Imp13.rfa cuts the solid form without leaving the surrounding offset you've described on one side. To get the void technique to only cut the smaller panel dimension so that you have a uniform inset perimeter you need to define another solid form that is the correct size for the interior panel. The void should only cut the geometry of the interior panel (to create the lites) and not the secondary frame surrounding it. Said another way. You need to create a second solid form for the "lites void" to cut so that you can have the interior frame around it. Your final door should have an solid forms for outer frame, interior frame and a panel that the "lites void" only cuts.

    Is that the problem you were expressing?

    Keep in mind that when I wrote that tutorial (for a lab at Autodesk University in 2005) this technique was just a proof of concept. I wasn't necessary advocating its wide spread use for such panels. That said it is pretty effective for creating flexible muntin geometry that cleans up nicely as long as the user doesn't exceed the maximum number of lites the panel is designed for. The same thing can be accomplished with an array using the same maximum logic so Revit doesn't create new elements that can't join geometry with existing geometry.
    Last edited by Steve_Stafford; December 16th, 2013 at 10:40 PM.

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    Many many thanks Steve for pointing the problem
    I shall currect it & will aso try the array method.
    Thanks again for yor conribution to BIM

    L.J.Upadhyay
    Varanasi
    India

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    Steve
    Thanks for pin pointing the problem. I modelled 2 sepetate forms per your indication & now the family (attached) is flexing properly.
    I tried arraying Lites. 1st I made a void Lite family then arrayed horizonally in next . Again by nesting I arrayed the hor array family for vertcal & load this third family of 2 side array to pannel family for cutting. When I set the Lite number to 1, error appeared. Array can not be less than 1, so I must control it by visibility. Is it so ?

    LJU

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