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Thread: Render a plan view

  1. #1
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    Render a plan view

    Is there any way to render a plan view (3D view set to 'Top') without hiding the roof? I need to display accurate external lighting through the windows and whatever shadows go along with this. The problem is that I need to hide the roof (or use a section box) to see in the room, however this also floods the room with light.
    I'm sure I've read about a way to achieve this effect???

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    Autodesk JeffH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Is there any way to render a plan view (3D view set to 'Top') without hiding the roof? I need to display accurate external lighting through the windows and whatever shadows go along with this. The problem is that I need to hide the roof (or use a section box) to see in the room, however this also floods the room with light.
    I'm sure I've read about a way to achieve this effect???
    This is not possible in Revit. You need to have the ability to flip the "normals" of an element, in this case the roof. Flipping the normals allso you to see through the object but it will still render as solid.

    Perhaps someone else has a trick I do not know of, but I think to do what you are looking to do, you will need to render in an application like 3ds Max which allows the flipping of normals.

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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    I asked this before and no-one understood what I was getting at (clearly Jeff wasn't around to read that one) - and I long since gave up trying to manipulate views with section boxes, scope boxes, clip depths, etc... But I'm nowhere close to getting to grips with 3DSMax enough to do it with that.

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    Member cwetzel's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried to place a camera just inside the roof aimmed downward and expanded the field of view? This obviously only would be helpful for one room at a time, but it's an idea.

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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwetzel View Post
    Has anyone tried to place a camera just inside the roof aimmed downward and expanded the field of view? This obviously only would be helpful for one room at a time, but it's an idea.
    It works, but quickly deforms as you adjust the crop box, and like you say, is only good per room - and even then, only good if the room's rectangular and has a tall ceiling.

    It beats me why this has been overlooked so long in Revit - especially when they used to go on about how cool creating section'd perspectives was... yes, they're cool - but pretty much next to useless for the use they're most generally created for (reviewing cross-sectional quality of light in my experience)
    Last edited by snowyweston; July 25th, 2012 at 03:57 PM.

  6. #6
    Administrator Gordon Price's Avatar
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    Jeff,
    is the issue that the version of the render engine in Revit does not support reversed normals? Or that the Revit database does not support reversed normals? Or that Autodesk simply has not yet provided a tool that allows for reversing of normals? I am hoping for the last, and hoping that Autodesk prioritizes more important things, like Site Tools, for in house development, while expanding the API to allow third parties to do this. Which begs the question... "Hey, Phillip, can you do this?!? With the current API?"
    I imagine a tool that lets me choose a Ref Plane from a list to use as the effective Cut plane for a view, and all normals nearer are reversed, ideally just in that view, but long enough to get a rendering wouldn't be bad either.
    Sadly, my guess is the normals trick is a purely render thing? Or does a Consistent Colors view also respect normals? Because a plan view in consistent colors with shadows that represent reality would rock. As would a section perspective. being limited to a rendered view would be a bummer in my book, but still better than being forced to pay for 3DS and learn it just to get a few special situation renderings out.

    Gordon

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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Price View Post
    I am hoping for the last, and hoping that Autodesk prioritizes more important things, like Site Tools, for in house development, while expanding the API to allow third parties to do this.
    I would certainly argue for a great many things to be improved before this - but the fact remains, it's a half-baked feature that needs to be improved to really prove it's worth the marketing fluff that accompanied it.

    As for the extra outlay on 3DS or other more capable rendering packages to throw into the workflow - well I don't know about you, but architecture "here" is about 60% Viz. 30% Admin. and 10% architecture (or at least it feels like that) - with Adobe Suites being more common place than Autodesk Suites... so graphics are an absolute bonus to those yet to be convinced by a switchover to BIM-products like Revit - and surely they're the core target for Autodesk? If we're making (half baked) requests of our own, let's have vector-exports instead/aswell of raster-printing for shaded views...

    As for Site tools (I know you only used them as an example) - well sorry, that's just not attractive enough either - I've yet to meet a single landscape architect who knows about BIM, let alone one using one, and Civils (in my experience) are equally a long way behind the curve.


    But back to the point (sort of) - as to discussing the behaviour/control of "normals" in rendering - again, that's just another in the wrong direction (IMHO) I do not want to learn the language of rendering, and if I don't want to, I will bet a fair sum of money that my architect colleagues don't want to either -and why should we have to? Why can't we use a vernacular language? Autodesk did a spectacular job of making that first step with Revit (a "wall" is a "wall") so why not follow that through elsewhere? If you've played with Lumion, you'll get where I'm going with this - how very obvious and easy to use is a slider bar with a sun at one end, and a moon at the other to adjust time? Or a compass widget to control the sun location? Basically, near everything Autodesk seem to do is inconsistent - almost like The Factory is made of departments that don't talk to/agree with/like each other - you need only look at the myriad ways we can/can't do multiple-selections within the different dialogs of Revit to see how cludgy the user-end interface has been developed/considered!

    Yes, I'm ranting. Sorry - it's been a long day.

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    Member cerb0z's Avatar
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    but architecture "here" is about 60% Viz. 30% Admin. and 10% architecture
    Really? Who gives a crap about viz. here nowadays, people don't pay for pictures, they pay for SD that well coordinated and passed expert examination. Early design with 'pretty pictures' is nowhere as profitable as 'real architecture work'.

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    Thanks for your feedback everyone. It certainly looks like something like this is not yet possible. Looks like it's back to the drawing board.

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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerb0z View Post
    Really? Who gives a crap about viz. here nowadays, people don't pay for pictures, they pay for SD that well coordinated and passed expert examination. Early design with 'pretty pictures' is nowhere as profitable as 'real architecture work'.
    When I say Viz. I mean "everything to do with visuals, graphics, presentation, etc" - you know - "not-really-architectural" concerns like :
    • ever-changing, never-fixed, line weights & styles
    • finding "that" exacting pantone or constant fiddling with colour (fill) ranges
    • text sizes and styles
    • esoteric schedule arrangements and colouring in
    • the location of, size of, number of and colour of birds, clouds & other junk in the sky
    • conveniently obscured/deleted reality in views
    • fussing over whether people are shaded, photorealistic, opaque, transparent or outline
    • constant re-invention of how to crop views, pose framing, etc
    • impossibly large dpi images that get used as thumbnails on the web
    • cranked/shortened grids & meticulously arranged level markers
    • ceiling lines in plan (despite having the RCP in the same drawing set)
    • exploiting "artistic license" with shadows, materials and view depths
    • adjusting materials and lighting in renders to the nth degree
    • constant fussing over the appearance of branding in the absence of undefined "rules"
    • etc


    - don't get me wrong, I like to think about all these things as well, but not at the forfeiture of time spent actually designing a building, talking with clients and consultants and generally keeping a project's wheels in (a forward moving) motion.

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