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Thread: Discussion on Multiple Templates?

  1. #1
    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Question Discussion on Multiple Templates?

    Hello all, wanting to get some feedback. As work is winding down I'm getting prepared to finally show my template much needed love. I've neglected it for years and I'm about to spend a lot of time on it.

    For those that do not know, I'm MEP, with heavy emphasis on HVAC and mechanical piping, which would be considered my natural discipline. Plumbing next, then lastly electrical. What I'm thinking is to divide my templates into two: one for the M and P, the other for the E. Mechanical HVAC, Piping and Plumbing will exist in one, and electrical in the other. I think that's a no brainer, however, I now do a lot of design work rather than construction shop drawings. So my real question is, for those who do both design and coordinated outputs, what are your thoughts on separating these templates?

    I'm considering it based on the fact that my models for coordinated fab documents has way more information, families and functionality heavily related to BOM and QAQC. My design construction documents for the consulting firms are very basic and I do not need the amount of views, schedules, families, tags, etc as I do for my coordinated fab documents. Before I commit to this, and I'm very much leaning to yes in splitting up my design and coordinated Templates, I'd like to hear some thoughts. Thanks!

    -TZ
    Last edited by tzframpton; August 23rd, 2016 at 01:30 PM.

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    Moderator cellophane's Avatar
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    The biggest issue with multiple templates is keeping everything up-to-date. You are doubling (or tripling) the effort required for what may be a minimal return. It is much easier (IMO) to build everything into your template and if you don't need it just delete it. I have 7 levels above grade & 2 below grade with views built in even though I rarely need more than 4 levels above and 0 below (I got that idea from Aaron BTW, not sure where the post is at the moment.)

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    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    I've thought about the up-to-date thing. What do you mean up to date? The templates would have fundamental common things, but the details would be very different.

    *EDIT*
    By "up to date" I mean, what specific things would you see as a hassle to keep up to date between all templates? I think once a few fundamental things are in place, those wouldn't update much.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    I have never heard a compelling argument for making multiple templates, ever. Every time you want to change a Filter, you have to open multiple files. Change a schedule? Open multiple files. Do something that is *sort of both* scopes of work? Have fun with that. Multiple Templates is a mistake.

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    Moderator cellophane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzframpton View Post
    By "up to date" I mean, what specific things would you see as a hassle to keep up to date between all templates? I think once a few fundamental things are in place, those wouldn't update much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Every time you want to change a Filter, you have to open multiple files. Change a schedule? Open multiple files. Do something that is *sort of both* scopes of work?
    Pretty much what Aaron said.

    A template is really a living document. There is always something new to add or adjust as you work - whether it is changing a filter, creating a new view type or something simple like adjusting text size in your dimensions. And most of those changes & ideas occur while you are working in a project. You either have to be insanely meticulous about keeping notes about what you changed in the project or you have to stop what you are doing and update the template(s) on the spot. Neither is overly efficient, although the latter is much worse.

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    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    How much experience do you guys have in both MEP, and the differences between design documents and fab-ready shop drawings? I'm thinking... REALLY hard... and I'm not sure that any two things will be used in the same manner. Filters, Views, Schedules, etc. Actually, equipment schedules would be the only thing that is exactly the same.

    The amount of VT's and Filters would be extensive to try and fan through. I'd have to prefix them, and it would be hard to manage. It would be just as much work either way if it's one template or two/three templates, plus you'd have to constantly battle the View Templates, Filters, BOM schedules, QAQC Schedules and Views, Project Browser organization, etc. I know it sounds a bit ludicrous, but design documents of HVAC and piping are nothing like fab-ready shop drawings of HVAC and piping. The only thing in common is that it's HVAC and piping. Fab ready contains SO much information, and has provision for many extra schedules, custom views, TONS of extra filters, tons of extra views and VT's to manage it, etc. I know I may be seen as dumb, stupid, or crazy by going down this road but in the years I've done this I'm trying to justify a "master template" scenario and I'm just not completely buying it from my experience. It's too much "stuff" in one template. I can still be convinced, but it would take someone who has specific and extensive knowledge in MEP design documents and fab shop drawings, instead of just telling me the stuff I already know.

    The more I am thinking about it, these templates will not be the same at all. The few items that would be the same, such as a Dimension Style, or a Schedule, can be managed easily. Again, I can be convinced but would like a more substantial reason why to keep one template considering the large amount of separate VT's, Filters, Tags/Families, Schedules, Views, PB organization, etc that would have to be managed. MEP is a whole other world, and MEP fabrication is a whole other galaxy.

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    Member TFuller's Avatar
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    Have you ever need of taking one project from design to fabrication?

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzframpton View Post
    How much experience do you guys have in both MEP, and the differences between design documents and fab-ready shop drawings? I'm thinking... REALLY hard... and I'm not sure that any two things will be used in the same manner. Filters, Views, Schedules, etc. Actually, equipment schedules would be the only thing that is exactly the same.

    The amount of VT's and Filters would be extensive to try and fan through. I'd have to prefix them, and it would be hard to manage. It would be just as much work either way if it's one template or two/three templates, plus you'd have to constantly battle the View Templates, Filters, BOM schedules, QAQC Schedules and Views, Project Browser organization, etc. I know it sounds a bit ludicrous, but design documents of HVAC and piping are nothing like fab-ready shop drawings of HVAC and piping. The only thing in common is that it's HVAC and piping. Fab ready contains SO much information, and has provision for many extra schedules, custom views, TONS of extra filters, tons of extra views and VT's to manage it, etc. I know I may be seen as dumb, stupid, or crazy by going down this road but in the years I've done this I'm trying to justify a "master template" scenario and I'm just not completely buying it from my experience. It's too much "stuff" in one template. I can still be convinced, but it would take someone who has specific and extensive knowledge in MEP design documents and fab shop drawings, instead of just telling me the stuff I already know.

    The more I am thinking about it, these templates will not be the same at all. The few items that would be the same, such as a Dimension Style, or a Schedule, can be managed easily. Again, I can be convinced but would like a more substantial reason why to keep one template considering the large amount of separate VT's, Filters, Tags/Families, Schedules, Views, PB organization, etc that would have to be managed. MEP is a whole other world, and MEP fabrication is a whole other galaxy.
    Sounds like you already know what you want to do. I say go for it, and rock separate templates.

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    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFuller View Post
    Have you ever need of taking one project from design to fabrication?
    Only once. And it will definitely happen again, but this would only happen in a design/build environment, in which I would automatically use the fab template for obvious reasons. The only thing I would see being a problem is if the design/build contractor would mandate a cleaner set for the permit issue, that wouldn't show every single interstitial detail.

    Have you had any experience in this type of stuff?

    *EDIT*
    In other words, it's not taking "one project from design to fab" but it's always intended to be fab ready from the get go, all in one pass.
    Last edited by tzframpton; August 23rd, 2016 at 04:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Moderator cellophane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzframpton View Post
    ...justify a "master template" scenario and I'm just not completely buying it from my experience. It's too much "stuff" in one template
    Have you seen Aaron's new template?!?

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