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Thread: The revitforum.org domain.

  1. #41
    JBZ
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    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
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    I think Shakespeare said it best: As I recall the passage ;-)
    Juliet:

    'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
    Thou art thyself, though not a (Montague) Revitforum.
    What's (Montague) Revitforum? it is nor hand, nor foot,
    Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
    Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
    What's in a name? that which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet;
    So (Romeo) Revitforum would, were he not (Romeo) Revitforum call'd,
    Retain that dear perfection which he owes
    Without that title. (Romeo) Revitforum, doff thy name,
    And for that name which is no part of thee
    Take all myself.


    Though I agree with the point the law holds here, I do hope there can be a solution where everyone is satisfied, like the $1 licensing 'fee'...that said...

    My skeptical self is also wondering if this was pushed by a certain other forum, in an attempt to get people to come back to their own ADSK affiliated forums??? You know, those forums whose secretive debacle created the spark for these here RevitForums to get started and quickly eclipse those dying, old, slow, (not) mentioned vendor affiliated forums...

    The law is the law and there needs to be an attorney well versed in these types of matters to bring forth possible solutions, as our opinions are next to meaningless where the law applies. There is the letter of the law and the nature of the law and only those with case law to rely on usually prevail...regardless, attorneys are probably though unfortunately the only resort other than changing the top-level-domain name...

    Finally Munk, I respect your openness and communication of all this and will support you in every and any way I can!
    Last edited by JBZ; February 20th, 2013 at 05:33 PM.
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  2. #42
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    How are you suppose to find a forum that isnt named by the subject that it is about? Disapointed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkholm View Post
    Dear revitforum.org members, colleagues and friends,

    As some of you may be aware, Autodesk, Inc., makers of Revit, have retained the law firm of Donahue Gallagher Woods to notify all domain holders that have the word REVIT contained in their top-level domain name, that they are infringing on the Autodesk REVIT trademark. They have requested that we change the domain name of revitforum.org to one that doesn't contain the the word REVIT.

    We refute these claims of infringement. The use of the trademark "REVIT" in the domain name "revitforum.org" is protected by the "Nominative Fair Use" legal doctrine that provides an affirmative defense to trademark infringement as enunciated by the United States Ninth Circuit, by which a person may use the trademark of another as reference to describe the product.

    The administrators of revitforum.org will formally respond to Autodesk. However, if all else fails, we want to assure you that we are prepared to move revitforum.org to a new domain if that is required.

    Whether or not there is a domain name change, rest assured that the forums will continue to operate just as they do now. We retain all the data on revitforum.org - that is not in any way at risk.

    We will notify you via email and on the revitforum.org website of any required domain name change ahead of time.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    p.s. if you know an attorney with the appropriate expertise who is willing to donate their time for this good cause, please feel free to contact a forum administrator privately.

  3. #43
    Junior Member Gary Luisi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PijPiwo View Post
    Have you heard about David and Goliath?
    I am familiar with biblical stories too. History is written by the victorious. I hope revitforum gets to tell the tale.

  4. #44
    Member Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    Love the reply, pretty sure the Autodesk Legal people did not see that coming and were counting on a scared reaction to a legal letter from a multi million dollar company.

    There is an issue though with copyrights and the fact that you need to defend them. So I do understand their point of view a bit too, but instead of sending a legal letter like the one they did, sending an email asking for a conversation to figure out the best way for both of you, would have been much better, especially to a forum with 17k members.

    Giving out a license, like suggested above, would be a far better option.

    I wonder if all the people in here would stick to Revit, if the only thing to get info was that Autodesk Wiki thing.

    [edit] just saw the logo changes, brilliant !!
    Last edited by Robin Deurloo; February 20th, 2013 at 06:00 PM.

  5. #45
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    Munk, I frankly advise that you seek legal counsel before making your response. This sounds a lot like empty intimidation to me.

    I recommend you check out ICANN's policies: Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy | ICANN

    None of Paragraph 4b applies to their complaint and all of 4c applies to your defense. I'm not a lawyer, but I really don't think they have a leg to stand on.

  6. #46
    French Moderator jbenoit44's Avatar
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    Most ever online was....today. guess why?
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  7. #47
    Forum Co-Founder iru69's Avatar
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    Hi folks,

    We might need to start a FAQ kind of thing, but a couple points (that I'm sure will got lost in all the really wonderful heart-felt responses).

    1. Autodesk needs to protect their trademark, or they risk losing it to the public domain.
    This is true. However, a trademark holder has limited rights under law in how far they can go to protect that trademark. As described in the email and more extensively in the letter, there is "Nominative Fair Use" legal doctrine, and the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. You are allowed to use the trademark in many ways, whether it's discussing a product or service, writing about it, advertising, etc. You can write a book titled "How to use Revit", and that's non-infringing use of a trademark. It's our legal understanding that this includes using a trademark in a top-tier domain name (as long as the domain name isn't used in "bad faith", i.e. isn't used to confuse or mislead Autodesk customers). We feel the law is very clear about this... and Autodesk is choosing to ignore it.

    2. Autodesk should license their trademark to revitforum.org.
    Theoretically, Autodesk could offer a contractual agreement for its use, but revitforum.org would likely refuse. However, any license, contractual agreement, etc., could impose limitations on this forum in exchange for the use of their trademark... revitforum.org considers that unacceptable.

    Edit: "corrected" part of trademark licensing - I had seen conflicting info and misreported it. Trademarks can be licensed.
    Last edited by iru69; February 20th, 2013 at 09:28 PM.
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  8. #48
    Moderator LeanneZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbenoit44 View Post
    Most ever online was....today. guess why?
    17,000+ reminders that we're here and ready to help???

  9. #49
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    "Mark Twain"
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    After reading the responses so I have a few comments:

    1. They are NOT right. Period. Under both US Law and ICANN regulations we have every right to use this forum name. Besides that, their argument is technically wrong too. But more on that in the letter we sent Autodesk posted here and the blog giving a nice little summary posted here.
    2. Since we are not infringing their Trademark, the argument "we need to cause otherwise we will loose our Trademark" is worthless. The law is clear: if you don't act on trademark INFRINGEMENT, you will loose your Trademark. No infringement = no reason to sue. Or they might as well sue CocaCola. They are not infringing their Trademark either, but if you don't sue someone every now and then you loose your Trademark, right?
    3. I would rather move the forum to DustCollectorsForum.org before taking a license from Autodesk to talk to other customers. Think about this people: do we REALLY want to put the guys that just scr*wed us over in factual charge of the forum's future? Do we really want to give them the power to end the license and pull the plug on any given time?
    4. I read some people saying they wanted to help in any way possible: read the blog, blog, tweet, email your a$$ off. Raise as much noise as you can. That my friends, probably is our best chance of survival...

    Let's see how this all works out.
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  10. #50
    Member Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    Martijn, seems I did not think the licensing thing trough, your point 3 is indeed pretty bad if you think about it.

    And yes they are wrong, according to all the things RF.org mentioned in the reply letter, but it is known that big companies do stuff like that to scare little companies or in this case non profit, community driver forums in giving up their name. Lets hope this will indeed be a David and Goliath outcome, as it should be !

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