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sink openings advice, please.

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    sink openings advice, please.

    Shouldn't the sink families bring their own openings to countertops so their size and locations are preset? The OOTB sinks and countertops still seem to be set up exactly the opposite. I asked a similar question last year at AUGI but the answers went a different direction (generic models can be cut by nested voids but not countertops). Wasn't this limitation removed in RAC 2012?

    If the voids should be added to the sinks not the countertops, I don't know where to start to add openings to my sinks. Any advice is appreciated.

    UPDATE: resolved per post #7 below. Thanks to Aaron and gaby424 for your help on this.
    Last edited by lost again again; March 18, 2012, 04:15 AM. Reason: noted location of resolution.

    Openings can now go in the Face Based Sink families, provided your Countertops are the Generic Model Category. If your Countertops are Casework, in 2012 you are out of luck. Having the sinks cut their own holes was a MASSIVE benefit, as now we just have four highly parametric countertop shapes, and we dont have to try dealing with complex arrays for Lav counters. But yes, it means the countertops have to be Generic Models. I dont mind, since they still quantify as Countertops and report all of the data we need in QTO. We never turn off the GM category either, because of other limiting factors with the OOTB categories.
    Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
    @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email


      Aaron: your answers always seem to prompt additional NOOB questions:

      So the void goes right into the sink family? I haven't placed many voids, but I recall that I need to designate that they are "cutting" something. I presume it's the face the family is created on? I added one to a sink family but don't know how to align it since the sink is floating in space!

      And I can't test it because my countertops are currently casework. Do I need to change them in the family editor? How does the project know they're casework?


        A temporary workaround if you want to keep your coutertop as a casework family si here

        I don`t know how it`s working with arrays.

        About your question if you go via Aaron solution
        -your contertop family should be opened in family editor. There, above the type properties button, you have a "family category and parameters" button where you swich to generic model.
        -you can nest your actual sink in a generic face based family. There you can create the void and cut that dummy face, also check the "cut with voids when loaded" feature in the properties menu (when nothing is selected)
        Last edited by gaby424; March 8, 2012, 06:00 AM.


          Gaby: Thanks for the link. I would like the process of adding a sink to a counter to be a single step if possible and will probably change my counters to generic models (once I get the voids working correctly). For my test project I replaced the countertop with a generic model version per your instruction above (requiring deleting and replacing the countertop, because I couldn't switch a casework component to a generic model component).

          Regarding the sink, Please tell me what I did wrong:
          1. I deleted the void in the sink family and loaded the sink into a new faced based generic model family.
          2. In the Family Category and Parameters box I changed its Family Category to "plumbing fixtures" and checked "cut with voids when loaded". Because I'm not sure which family was to have this setting, I also checked "cut with voids when loaded" in the countertop family.
          3. I created a new void there and used cut Geometry to cut the face (I tried both cutting the face to the bottom of the sink and all the way through). The face appears cut by the void in the family.
          4. The sink will still not cut the generic model countertop.


            You make the Sinks Face based, and model the sink RIGHT on the Solid Extrusion. Then you make the void in the family, and tell the void to cut the solid *extrusion* thats in the face based template. If you do that, placing a sink on a countertop is a one step operation, provided the countertop is a GM. To switch it, open your countertop, go to Family Categories and Settings (yellow folder icon, top left), and switch it to GM.

            Heres the bad news: There is NO way this works correctly, with Arrays. I filed several support requests dating back to 2009 and as recent as a few months ago. Once you array a face based family, it loses its ability to cut the host, since it loses the host associativity. You can constrian the array to stay on the countertop, but you cant get it to cut reliably.

            Small price to pay, for not having to deal with doing a save as on a Lav Array family every time someone finds a new sink with a new hole shape they want to use.

            EDIT: When placing your sink, make sure you have chcked "Place on Face" and not "Place on Work Plane." Which also means your countertop needs to have the modeled geometry visible in plan. (There goes that pesky Model Style Guides advice on symbolic lines again!)
            Last edited by Twiceroadsfool; March 8, 2012, 06:10 PM.
            Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
            @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email


              resolved! with additional questions

              Gaby: An update (and a NOOB error!). I had the wrong sink in my countertop, the original one not the nested one in the faced based family with the void. Switching it to the right family solved the problem and my sink now cuts the counter top. Your instructions worked -- thanks!

              I'd like to keep my families clean. Because I'm not sure which family was to have this setting, I also checked "cut with voids when loaded" in both the sink and countertop family. Which is correct?

              Aaron: I still don't understand how the project knows the now generic model countertops are casework. Can you explain?


                The project doesnt know they are casework. The project will think they are Generic models, since they are Generic Models. For QTo we sort everything by Assembly Codes, which can be changed to reflect that they belong to Casework, not GM. But, for VG controls, and category specific scheduling, and other things, they are Generic models...
                Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
                @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email


                  Aaron: It looks like we posted at the same time earlier so I didn't get your input before finishing my families. I ended up with a nested family (started from the OOTB lavatory sink) in a face based family. I'm going to have to leave it like that for now because I am putting out many fires at the moment and just tamped that one down enough to move on to the next.

                  I didn't know what QTo meant when you mentioned it before. Now I understand.

                  And maybe some good news?: I arrayed my sink on my countertop and the new sinks do cut the countertop (but not the splash or wall where one ran off the countertop). I've attached the project so you can review.
                  Attached Files


                    so it looks like Aaron`s array bug is not present in your family . Wonder why.


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