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    Doors and Openings

    I was just curious as to how you guys would handle this issue:

    Basically, I created a glass overhead door family from a generic model and changed the category to Door. The reason I did this was because my OHD are installed between columns. The columns wrap a structural steel column. I model them with walls that surround that column, so there's no wall to host my door.

    I have another building I'm working on that uses the same door, except this time, there is a wall there to host it. (Building is structural block, so no steel columns to wrap).

    So, do I:
    1. Use the same doors, and just cut an opening out of the wall with an opening component?
    2. Is there a way to nest this generic door into a door family template and salvage it?
    3. Quit being lazy and just model another door already.
    4. Some other brilliant idea.
    Dan

    #2
    I vote for #3



    Edit: How about just changing Family Category from Generic Models to Doors. Is that gonna work?
    Edit: Nah, ...for doors, host is needed. Isn't it.
    Last edited by PijPiwo; February 9, 2012, 05:53 PM.

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      #3
      My approach, FWIW.

      Start with Generic Model and change the Category to door.
      Model the rollup door, create any needed types, make it shared. Save as "x Door Leaf - Rollup" or some such. The x prefix if for nested items in my naming convention.
      Now you can nest this in a wall hosted door, or another GM to Door family. In both cases I use a Family Type parameter.
      Even if you need both in a project, an edit to the nested "leaf" addresses both uses. And the "leaf" can be placed in a Door Types legend on it's own. I do the same nested approach with frames, and also nest hardware into the leafs. All great, other than the retarded sorting you get in a Family Types parameter drop down.

      Gordon
      Pragmatic Praxis

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        #4
        I wouldve made them all hosted, and then modeled a wall in between the columns to host the original door. Certainly there is a wall above the door, isnt there?

        I think the only "Doors" i have unhosted are things like Line Based Won-Doors for hospitals, etc.
        Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
        @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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          #5
          Aaron,
          I once worked on a dot com era TI where we actually took pre hung doors, added screw eyes and hung the doors on cables with other cables tying them to the floor slab as well. Turnbuckles kept them tight. Other cables supported some fabric panels and such. The goal, "private" offices that where really open, but when the "door" was closed the occupant didn't want to be disturbed. Also, here in Portland there is a common use of hanging window casements or whole units on cables or hooks to partially enclose a porch or other outdoor space. So I can imagine a rollup door dropped between columns and used only as a space defining element, with no head wall at all. Maybe just my funky west coast experience.


          Gordon
          Last edited by Gordon Price; February 9, 2012, 06:15 PM.
          Pragmatic Praxis

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            #6
            Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
            I wouldve made them all hosted, and then modeled a wall in between the columns to host the original door. Certainly there is a wall above the door, isnt there?

            I think the only "Doors" i have unhosted are things like Line Based Won-Doors for hospitals, etc.
            My Won Doors are hosted...just the main door, the stowed away doors are a detail component...
            Michael "MP" Patrick (Deceased - R.I.P)

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              #7
              So I can just nest this one into a door family? Sweet. I'll try that.

              Aaron, yep, there is a wall above the headers. But, if I put in a "fake" wall just to host the door, then decide to schedule materials or walls, won't that mess up the schedule? I guess I'd have to filter it somehow...IF I ever wanted to schedule walls...which I don't currently, sooo....not really an issue for me now. But it might screw someone else up. :laugh:
              Dan

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                #8
                The wall above your door is the door host, your door creates the opening just like any other door. In this case it just happens between two wrapped columns rather than a regular wall.

                Or am i completely missing something?
                Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO


                chad
                BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by cellophane View Post
                  The wall above your door is the door host, your door creates the opening just like any other door. In this case it just happens between two wrapped columns rather than a regular wall.

                  Or am i completely missing something?
                  Probably not. The wall above doesn't come down the sides of the door, if that makes sense. It's just above, sitting on top of (4) 2x12 headers. I'm sure it's all in the way I model it. I've just been doing it this way for 18 years (yes, from ACA) so it doesn't look right to me any other way.

                  Plus, we model how it's built, right? There's no wall there. Just a steel structural column with brick wrapped around it. The doors mount to the back side of the brick column.
                  Dan

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                    #10
                    Dan,
                    if you have a bit of wall that is exactly the same size as the opening being hosted, it will all get eaten by the opening and scheduling will be the same as if you didn't host. Meaning it will be wrong in funny ways, but not as a result of the dummy wall. but, if you end up with an insert that is a little small, say the door doesn't include the extent of the rough opening, then you will get little slivers of wall that do throw off wall area. But again, these schedules, both walls and materials, are funky, incorrect, and not really fully trustable beyond a rough comparison to bid numbers.
                    That said, I tend to follow the "model it like you build it" mantra here, so a situation like a Nana door that really is just being inserted between two columns and under a beam, I would make not hosted. Or a floor to ceiling, wall to wall interior storefront unit that repeats, I would do as a door (I am used to including them in the door schedule in door and frame types sheet) and also not host. If the design changes, like it comes down from the ceiling and will have a head wall, then the detailing also changes, so needing a different family is OK, to somewhat force a little though about the repercussions of the design decision. If the contractor is not going to make a wall, I am not going to model a wall. Usually.

                    FWIW, in the case of a wall that only exists above, I might still host, so that the wall and door move as a unit. Or I might do the door unheated with the wall independent, the bottom offset aligned to the top of the door, and the wall aligned to the door in a section as well. Mostly it depends on the possibility of the door getting smaller and needing walls to the side as a design change.

                    Gordon
                    Last edited by Gordon Price; February 9, 2012, 06:52 PM.
                    Pragmatic Praxis

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