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    Cannot place window or door on wall with different phases

    As almost all of my work involves extensions and renovations, this is a problem which crops up quite a lot.

    Scenario:

    Modeled the existing conditions wall and windows in existing phase

    In New construction Phase demolished unwanted window (automatic infill of wall)

    In new construction Phase model New adjacent wall and place a door. The door position finds that it falls across the new construction wall, the infill element for the window and the existing wall itself.

    Door cannot be placed - error message reads: Can't place inserts outside of hosts. These elements won't be copied"

    A work around I have found is to place the door in wholly in the new wall and then nudge it to the correct position. But I am curious why Revit falls over on this task.

    Any Clues?

    Cheers,
    Attached Files
    Ian Kidston
    http://allextensions.com.au

    #2
    I'm no expert but deal with lots of renovation and extensions as well and have come across the same issue. Have you tried demolishing the unwanted window in the existing phase and then placing the door in the new construction phase?
    Phasing is something I still have some trouble getting my head around but I believe that there is a post on Revit OPEd or Revit Clinic about phases. I'll look for it when I have some time and post it here

    Hope this helps!
    Juan Carlos Moreno
    Store Designer & Merchandising Manager
    Sisley Cosmetics

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Juan,

      I had used that technique once or twice, but it messes up both the demolition plan and the existing conditions plan. If the window is demolished in the existing phase, it doesn't show up as works in the new construction phase and the existing conditions are not correct either as they show the window hatched with the wall in filled.

      Cheers,
      Ian Kidston
      http://allextensions.com.au

      Comment


        #4
        I tried replicating what you did and now I understand the issue. This is weird. Although your workaround seem to work, this shouldn't be the default behavior. I think that instead of having demolition as a system (Ghost) phase they should just have a phase called demolition and whatever element you demolish goes in that phase and is configure to show as you would a demolition plan. So in the filters it shows existing, demolition and new construction instead of playing guessing games with what you want to show and figuring out the correct filter and phase for that

        Hopefully someone can better educate me on this. I am still a noob after all
        Juan Carlos Moreno
        Store Designer & Merchandising Manager
        Sisley Cosmetics

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Ian.Kidston View Post
          Thanks Juan,

          I had used that technique once or twice, but it messes up both the demolition plan and the existing conditions plan. If the window is demolished in the existing phase, it doesn't show up as works in the new construction phase and the existing conditions are not correct either as they show the window hatched with the wall in filled.

          Cheers,
          I Ian.

          I also do alot of Alteration work as well, but I don't have the issues you are having. I definately have my demolition on the existing phase as in my mind demolition is not new construction. I will send through a screen cap of my existing/demo and new plans later along with the view settings.
          Phillip Miller
          Kiwi Codes Solutions Ltd
          Makers of "Family Browser" and "Project Browser" for Revit.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by JCM View Post
            I tried replicating what you did and now I understand the issue. This is weird. Although your workaround seem to work, this shouldn't be the default behavior. I think that instead of having demolition as a system (Ghost) phase they should just have a phase called demolition and whatever element you demolish goes in that phase and is configure to show as you would a demolition plan. So in the filters it shows existing, demolition and new construction instead of playing guessing games with what you want to show and figuring out the correct filter and phase for that

            Hopefully someone can better educate me on this. I am still a noob after all
            Why not simply create a demolition Phase? Go to Manage > Phases and create a new Phase for Demo between Existing and New. This does clear out a lot of problems.

            The thing here is this: the error you get ISN'T for the door, but for the infilling element. This is completely placed outside the existing wall since the door cuts away the wall around it. This wouldn't be much of a problem when the infilling element was created on a different Phase, because it would simply be deleted again on the next Phase (that's why Phillip and Juan don't have this problem). But your workmethod requires Revit to place the infilling element on a wall that's not there because there's a door present. This gives an error. Although the actions are 2 seperate things for you (deleting window and placing new door), for Revit these happen at the same time because it's one Phase.

            As far as I know this problem will be solved when using a seperate Demo Phase.
            Martijn de Riet
            Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
            MdR Advies
            Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by KiwiCodes View Post
              I Ian.

              I also do alot of Alteration work as well, but I don't have the issues you are having. I definately have my demolition on the existing phase as in my mind demolition is not new construction. I will send through a screen cap of my existing/demo and new plans later along with the view settings.
              Thanks Phillip,
              I would like to check out you have set it up. Maybe it is the old builder in me, but I have ALWAYS thought of demolition as part of the new works. Once we started pulling stuff out, the meter started ticking over!


              Originally posted by mdradvies View Post
              Why not simply create a demolition Phase? Go to Manage > Phases and create a new Phase for Demo between Existing and New. This does clear out a lot of problems.

              The thing here is this: the error you get ISN'T for the door, but for the infilling element. This is completely placed outside the existing wall since the door cuts away the wall around it. This wouldn't be much of a problem when the infilling element was created on a different Phase, because it would simply be deleted again on the next Phase (that's why Phillip and Juan don't have this problem). But your workmethod requires Revit to place the infilling element on a wall that's not there because there's a door present. This gives an error. Although the actions are 2 seperate things for you (deleting window and placing new door), for Revit these happen at the same time because it's one Phase.

              As far as I know this problem will be solved when using a seperate Demo Phase.
              OK, now this makes a bit more sense. I will have a play with setting the phase filters up with a demolition phase.

              Thanks Martin
              Ian Kidston
              http://allextensions.com.au

              Comment


                #8
                Ran a test and came up with the same problem.

                Wall and window modeled in existing phase - phase filter set to Existing Show All

                Created new Demolition Phase - Phase filter set to Show Previous + demo Demolished window

                In new construction Phase - Phase filter set to New Construction - Show Complete Model additional wall and place double door so that it cuts new wall, existing wall and infilled wall of demolished window.

                Same error message as previous.
                Ian Kidston
                http://allextensions.com.au

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mdradvies View Post
                  ...As far as I know this problem will be solved when using a seperate Demo Phase.
                  Yes, that would solve this problem. But aren´t you getting yourself into a load of other problems ? I´d love to see how your phase filters are setup when using a "Demo Phase".
                  I´ve always been advocating that "Demo" is not a Phase, but an Action. Prove me wrong
                  Klaus Munkholm
                  "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    What other problems are you referring too? The only time I have a real problem is with replacing a door/window with a new one that has exactly the same dimensions in exactly the same place. But I believe this ALWAYS gives you a problem.

                    Besides that: it's a phase for a contractor. First you Demo all things needed, and after that you start rebuilding... That's the way our contractors work anyway. That being said: I rarely issue "Demo"-drawings. You have existing, you have new: do the math.
                    Martijn de Riet
                    Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
                    MdR Advies
                    Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

                    Comment

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