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    Radiant Heat

    Hi Guys,
    I’m working on a rehab project and I need your advice on radiant heat tubing installation. Existing basement will get a new concrete slab with radiant heat tubing. Would you put insulation (which btw will cover entire basement) right under the slab on top of gravel, or gravel on top of insulation? Thanks.
    Attached Files

    #2
    probably depends on the manufacturer...but from a quick search of details its insulation under the slab...

    Why was the decision to put in a new floor instead of putting a radiant subfloor in? Height issues?
    Attached Files
    Michael "MP" Patrick (Deceased - R.I.P)

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      #3
      Nice picture :beer:. Thanks.

      …yeah, new slab is 12” lower.

      That’s what I thought. Slab, insulation and gravel, but I’m just afraid the concrete guys will thrash the insulation while installing WWF and pouring concrete, not to mention HVAC guys installing the tubing. There will be a lot of workers walking on that insulation before the concrete is poured. Well, ...I guess they just have to be extra careful.

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        #4
        Originally posted by PijPiwo View Post
        Nice picture :beer:. Thanks.

        …yeah, new slab is 12” lower.

        That’s what I thought. Slab, insulation and gravel, but I’m just afraid the concrete guys will thrash the insulation while installing WWF and pouring concrete, not to mention HVAC guys installing the tubing. There will be a lot of workers walking on that insulation before the concrete is poured. Well, ...I guess they just have to be extra careful.
        Well, if they do you'll know it was the wrong kind of insulation to begin with. Cause it needs to handle these loads too when the floor is poored + weight of the floor itself...
        Martijn de Riet
        Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
        MdR Advies
        Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

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          #5
          It will be regular 2” foam rigid pink insulation by Owens Corning. The insulation can take the concrete load with an ease. There is a difference though, between the load being evenly distributed (in case of concrete) vs. people walking and applying relatively small points of pressure. It can easily brake, especially when the insulation is on not so stable base (gravel) below.
          Maybe that’s the problem – gravel. Should it be something more stable, like CR6? It needs to be permeable as well.

          Or maybe I’m just worrying too much and gravel will be just fine. Any thoughts?
          Thanks.

          Comment


            #6
            As long as the site conditions under the structure are properly compacted, gravel will be just fine. If you're concerned about the insulation breaking, you could consider a layer of sand between the gravel and insulation to provide some protection and extra rigidity.

            If anything, ask an HVAC company for suggestions. Since they install it, they'll know what works and what doesn't.
            Last edited by Andrew K; November 17, 2011, 01:27 PM.
            Developer at Anguleris BIMsmith Marketplace.
            Previously at Sumex Design for ARCAT.com

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              #7
              We usually place the insulation on a layer of sand, and the insulation should (according to our regulations) have compressive stress values according to the below. (And a thickness of 12", not 2" - LOL)

              Domestic - light loading > Compressive Stress = 70 kPa
              Domestic - medium to high loading > Compressive Stress = 100 kPa
              Commercial - medium loading > Compressive Stress = 150 kPa
              Commercial - medium to high loading > Compressive Stress = 200 kPa

              More here: Sundolitt Ltd - Floor - Below Concrete Slab
              Klaus Munkholm
              "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Munkholm View Post
                We usually place the insulation on a layer of sand, and the insulation should (according to our regulations) have compressive stress values according to the below. (And a thickness of 12", not 2" - LOL)
                12”??? Klaus, are you mad? lol. Maybe on South Pole, lol, …not here though. 12” must be like around R-60! Just curious, why is it required to be so thick (strength, R value, something else)?
                2” insulation with R value of 10 and comp. stress of 170 kPa should be good enough in my case. Thanks for the link.


                Originally posted by Andrew K View Post
                As long as the site conditions under the structure are properly compacted, gravel will be just fine. If you're concerned about the insulation breaking, you could consider a layer of sand between the gravel and insulation to provide some protection and extra rigidity.

                If anything, ask an HVAC company for suggestions. Since they install it, they'll know what works and what doesn't.
                Using a layer of sand like you and Klaus suggested is a good idea. However, talking to some G.C.’s (don’t have Hvac guys yet), you’re right, gravel alone should be just fine. The insulation still can brake here and there, but within acceptable amount …I don’t know, …might use sand just in case (if budget allows).

                Thanks guys! :beer:
                Last edited by PijPiwo; November 17, 2011, 10:29 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by PijPiwo View Post
                  12”??? Klaus, are you mad? lol. Maybe on South Pole, lol, …not here though. 12” must be like around R-60! Just curious, why is it required to be so thick (strength, R value, something else)?
                  2” insulation with R value of 10 and comp. stress of 170 kPa should be good enough in my case. Thanks for the link.
                  Our combined floor structures most have a R value (U Value?) less than 0,20 W/m2, and we have some pretty strict regulations for the energy consumption from the building as a whole, why the R value of our floors are typically between 0,09 and 0,11 W/m2
                  So 12" is the "standard" these days, but I've done projects with 16" too
                  Klaus Munkholm
                  "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Munkholm View Post
                    Our combined floor structures most have a R value (U Value?) less than 0,20 W/m2, and we have some pretty strict regulations for the energy consumption from the building as a whole, why the R value of our floors are typically between 0,09 and 0,11 W/m2
                    So 12" is the "standard" these days, but I've done projects with 16" too
                    Are you talking about R-value (heat resistance) or U-value (heat transfer)?

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