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CW's........Thinking ahead.

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    #1

    CW's........Thinking ahead.

    Okay, I've successfully completed (at least I think so) an exciting VDC project for a Custom exterior wall company in NC. for shop dwgs. Now I need to take this a step further and 'breakdown' what I've done so far into it's pieces. A little background to start. The project entails Terra Cotta Tiles and Alum Composite panels. See attached for the Tile mockup. I chose to use CW's for it's flexibilities to 'mass populate' the tiles. I first started with the CW tile as a panel, built the supporting structures as individual families, brought them into the tile panel family, locked inot place, etc. In the overall scheme of things fro a plan and section standpoint, this achieved its purpose beautifully. Now I need to stake this to the next level as this will be going thru Navisworks and tie to Timerliner for construction sequencing, and for Material takeoffs. The 1st issue is that all the supporting structure as I'v built them so far, is the since the individual tiles are roughly 3' w x 2' high, the structure extrusions are also the same approx lengths. In reality , these extrusions are 20-30' long. the 2nd issue ti the ability to marked and tag the individual pieces from a constructions sequencing standpoint when we go to do fabrication andinstallation. Mt first thought was to create 2 seperate cW's..one for the structural, one for the Tiles, and marry them together. On the one hand this may work (at least I think), since this allows individual adjustments of framing vs Tile locations. But the coordination between the 2 cw's could be potentially problematic given the size fo the project. The other thing is that I've never scheduled an CW down to it's lowest part level. Hell I don't know for sure it can even be done. I've done Shared param's in the past for doors, Wdws, etc, so I'm very comfortablefrom that stand point....but not CW's. So now the questions are: Am i crazy? Am I asking too much of RAC? Can these even be done as I've described? I welcome feedback, BOTH GOOD AND BAD, and I PROMISE TO REPORT BACK AND SHARE all That I come up with if I can get it to work as planned. Anyone think I've gone off the deep end?

    Mike
    Attached Files
    :coffee:Michael L. Maloney
    Virtual World Designs
    BIM/VDC Modeling & Coordination
    BDSU 2013
    Tags: None
    #2
    Mike

    As far as documenting, detailing, scheduling, curtain wall elements, yes, it is possible. Revit does not come with these things ready to go out of the box, but it is possible to load Revit with a set of families, schedules, formulas, and parameters to make this work. I recommend you to exchange posts in this discussion with the expert in the curtain wall field: Dave Jones. I am sure he will come here very soon.

    About the Navisworks part, we have another expert in our forum, who is willing to help, and has been waiting to see yet more activity in the new Navisworks subforum. That expert is Matt Stachoni. He presented an introduction to Navisworks at AU last December, which included a handout of more than 80 pages.
    Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin

    Comment

      #3
      Thanks Alfredo...........yes, I've kinda noticed the Dave really has his head around CW's. I am really comfortable with them as far as the "Architectural sdie goes", and as you've read in the post, I'm ready (and need) to take to the next level with them. That's why I posted it here. I'm not afaraid of trying anything once, so I'll be attacking it in the meantime, but I also figured it would be a good thread to help someone else wanting to 'dig deeper'. And yes, I am aware of Matt and his expertise. I'll be posting there shortly also. Thatnks for the help...........I look forward to working this out "out there".

      Mike
      :coffee:Michael L. Maloney
      Virtual World Designs
      BIM/VDC Modeling & Coordination
      BDSU 2013

      Comment

        #4
        Is it possible to post a standard panel family so we can fiddle around with it? I did a lot off work in helping contractors setting up calculation and fabrication schedules and drawings. So I would like to take a stab at it.
        Martijn de Riet
        Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
        MdR Advies
        Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

        Comment

          #5
          Hey you go Martijn..........have at it.

          I'd appreciate any input you may have.

          Mike
          Attached Files
          :coffee:Michael L. Maloney
          Virtual World Designs
          BIM/VDC Modeling & Coordination
          BDSU 2013

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by MikeMaloney View Post
            Hey you go Martijn..........have at it.

            I'd appreciate any input you may have.

            Mike
            Hi Mike,

            Took a quick look, but I'm confused. You stated in the OP that some parts have the wrong size: are these the verticals behind the actual panels?
            What elements do you need to schedule? All parts, varticals, actual tile, brackets, all seperately?
            Martijn de Riet
            Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
            MdR Advies
            Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by mdradvies View Post
              Hi Mike,

              Took a quick look, but I'm confused. You stated in the OP that some parts have the wrong size: are these the verticals behind the actual panels?
              What elements do you need to schedule? All parts, varticals, actual tile, brackets, all seperately?
              the small extruded aluminum section at the bottom of the panel is installed in continuous horizontal lengths, I think Mike said 20 or 30ft long. these would not be hard to schedule in their actual correct lengths if he has used curtain wall grids at panel joints. I'm against the wall with a project schedule and am in the middle of a move of residence/office so I'm not able to really get into this now. For the record I sent Mike an email a week or so ago and offered to collaborate on curtain wall and panel stuff but it probably was caught in his spam filter as I didn't hear back from him.

              Mike, if you read this PM me and we'll get the email deal straightened out. Unless of course you didn't want to talk to me :crazy:
              I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

              Comment

                #8
                Hey Martijn and Dave,
                I guess I need to elaborate a little more. The sample I posted was just my first stab at customizing CP's, and to get something 'on paper' to the company I'm doing the model for can do their detailing for their shop dwgs. I am ectremely comfortable with CW's from the Architecture Side, so I've never had to deal with this Level of Detail from a Man'f POV. That being said, what you see was simply to get the model to a point from them to proceed whith their details for submiital approval. I also built this with the knowledge that I'd have to 'break it all out" down to it's true individual pieces as they will be installed in the field to do they accurate takeoffs. As I stated in the OP, my gut is telling me that I'm going to need to break the Entire single CW's at each area out into atleast 2 seperate CW's...1 for the framing, which I can control spacing and parts thru the mullions, and then the actual Tiles (sans the major framing) with their clips as a seperate CW...pretty much as I've built it now. And, since I've never in the past had to "schedule" individual parts of a CW in the ARch Firms I've worked, I wasn't sure if I could add the Shared Params to be able too. Does this make sense? I think what I'm asking is this feasible? Remember, I will be pushing this thru Navisworks for Sequencing for Construction and Installation with their schedule. I'd post the Model, but as you can guess, it's a little large for this Forum, and I don't have my ftp up and running yet.

                BTW.Dave. I did get your invite thru the forum last Sunday. But I'd only been on the Forum a short while, and didn't really follow thru or go deeper into the 'friend' request until this morning....Hence I didn't even see your message till now. I did respond again just now, so hopefully it went thru. If not, both of you can email me directly. Mike
                :coffee:Michael L. Maloney
                Virtual World Designs
                BIM/VDC Modeling & Coordination
                BDSU 2013

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by MikeMaloney View Post
                  Hey Martijn and Dave,
                  I guess I need to elaborate a little more. The sample I posted was just my first stab at customizing CP's, and to get something 'on paper' to the company I'm doing the model for can do their detailing for their shop dwgs. I am ectremely comfortable with CW's from the Architecture Side, so I've never had to deal with this Level of Detail from a Man'f POV. That being said, what you see was simply to get the model to a point from them to proceed whith their details for submiital approval. I also built this with the knowledge that I'd have to 'break it all out" down to it's true individual pieces as they will be installed in the field to do they accurate takeoffs. As I stated in the OP, my gut is telling me that I'm going to need to break the Entire single CW's at each area out into atleast 2 seperate CW's...1 for the framing, which I can control spacing and parts thru the mullions, and then the actual Tiles (sans the major framing) with their clips as a seperate CW...pretty much as I've built it now. And, since I've never in the past had to "schedule" individual parts of a CW in the ARch Firms I've worked, I wasn't sure if I could add the Shared Params to be able too. Does this make sense? I think what I'm asking is this feasible? Remember, I will be pushing this thru Navisworks for Sequencing for Construction and Installation with their schedule. I'd post the Model, but as you can guess, it's a little large for this Forum, and I don't have my ftp up and running yet.

                  BTW.Dave. I did get your invite thru the forum last Sunday. But I'd only been on the Forum a short while, and didn't really follow thru or go deeper into the 'friend' request until this morning....Hence I didn't even see your message till now. I did respond again just now, so hopefully it went thru. If not, both of you can email me directly. Mike
                  Hi Mike, got your PM but it was a Visitors Message and not in my normal PM inbox. Probably because you weren't logged in when you sent it ??

                  In the last year I have been learning about how to schedule parts and pieces of both curtain walls and panel systems. Your project family seems more inclined to be a panel takeoff situation if I'm understanding what you're doing. If you have a support extrusion that comes in 30' lengths and is field installed, normally at full length but cut to size to accommodate corners of the building etc it's a similar situation to, say, furring channels for a linear panel system. To me, in this case, you don't need to have an exact list of lengths required, only a list of all lengths required that can be converted to a total length required list divided by 30' = # of pcs you need. All of the tile panels would be scheduled for their type, width, height, etc and the support extrusion would be "taken off" with calculated values. Similar calculations can be done to get quantities of hanger clips and other misc parts and pieces. I've also done this with separate families for things like continuous furring, flashings, copings, etc and these can be schedule separately from your tile "curtain panels". I know nothing of Navisworks or how running your model through Navisworks would affect scheduling so I can't help you there.

                  As I mentioned above I'm in the middle of a home and office move while trying to manage a major remodel of the new house/office, getting my projects done at the same time, while packing boxes so it's a bit hectic around here. My move is on 1/21 thru 1/23 and if my Internet connection gets installed on schedule I should be back up and running on 1/24 and could be of more use to you then. Good luck in the meantime!
                  I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Hi Mike,

                    Took some more time to play with the curtain panel. Like Dave said, I recreated the Intermediate Clip as a Mullion. This seems to work fine.
                    I don't think you will have to cut the panels into different pieces. You just need to make the components shared. Thiss will make them scheduleable (if that's an english phrase). Did run into a problem with the vertical studs: they give me an error when reloading as shared. So for now, I deleted those.

                    I'm guessing that you would still want the studs, brackets and so on to be more flexible and parameter driven in placing. Will dive into that later on. Hope this helps for now.
                    Attached Files
                    Martijn de Riet
                    Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
                    MdR Advies
                    Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

                    Comment

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