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Miter a steel tube?

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    #11
    Long before "Edit beam joins" was around there was a great little trick, if you copy a structural concrete beam family then edited the family and imported your steel profile in place of the default profile, then you had structural steel beams that mitered, joined by trim and acted perfectly. I still use this method, but analitically and schedule wise it is a concrete beam, but graphically its perfect.
    Could never work out how or why concrete behaved differently to steel when it came to joins.

    Edit
    same with structural post -column, conctete
    Last edited by mark b; January 14, 2011, 12:14 AM.
    Mark Balsom

    If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

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      #12
      Originally posted by Dave Jones View Post
      well, I've got a beam and a column so it seems that the RP method is the way to go. I finally got it to miter correctly by moving the short offending beam away from the column, moving the mitered beam and RP back in place, then mitering the column. PITA but it worked. I can see where the Column/Beam join would work well for beams in plan or columns in elevation but beams and columns don't like each other...
      One other thing, make sure the beams that you are cutting actually go past the RP. I took me a while to figure that out. In ACA, you can trim beams to anything whether they touch it or not. Lines, other beams, walls. It's awesome. That's one thing Revit should steal from ACA. Well that and plot windows.
      Dan

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        #13
        Originally posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
        Yes, Ben and Dzatto are correct in their comments. Dave, since I had seen an image of that mock-up project you were doing, because you posted it in Augi some day, I thought about beam to beam connection, which is easy with the Column/Beam Join tool.

        But unfortunately, yes, it's not easy when it is column to beam. To make it work, the column element would have to be a beam that has been rotated (and disjoined) in elevation view, as in this example. Then the Column/Beam Joint tool works easily again, displaying the arrows!

        Strange things come out of that factory sometimes!
        I had tried that method but with a column and find that I couldn't rotate a column to horizontal. Maybe there's a way to do it but I couldn't figure it out. I just tried it with a structural framing family tube and it worked fine. As a matter of fact when I moved the two together at the ends then changed to medium visibility they were already mitered. That was a long afternoon for one little miter joint :banghead: Now I need a :whiskey:
        Last edited by Dave Jones; January 14, 2011, 12:22 AM. Reason: removed attachment attached incorrectly
        I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

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          #14
          Originally posted by mark b View Post
          Long before "Edit beam joins" was around there was a great little trick, if you copy a structural concrete beam family then edited the family and imported your steel profile in place of the default profile, then you had structural steel beams that mitered, joined by trim and acted perfectly. ...
          Mark, that sounds very interesting. Could you please elaborate a little more on it?
          Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin

          Comment

            #15
            Originally posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
            Mark, that sounds very interesting. Could you please elaborate a little more on it?
            Hi Alf
            These are a standard "concrete structural beam" with my own profiles inserted
            Load these beams then select / edit family , and I am sure you will understand how they are created.
            Draw as structural beam try trim to joins and you will see they miter perfectly or draw by chain for automatic joins.
            like i said I could never workout the difference between steel and concrete beams and why one was allowed to join correctly and the other wasn't.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by mark b; January 16, 2011, 12:12 AM.
            Mark Balsom

            If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

            Comment

              #16
              Originally posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
              Place the two tubes perpendicular to each other, maybe using coarse detail first so that they display as lines. Change to Medium detail. Now > Modify > Column/Beam Joins. You will see a couple of arrows close to the tubes. Click on one of the arrows > Lock the join > Modify to finish.

              See illustration.
              Just an FYI: the miter lock only locks the geometry so that the symbolic lines can be adjusted. This allows the miter joint to be represented in different ways in coarse level of detail. If you do not use these symbolic views or if the default representation is to your liking there is no need to use the lock.

              Erik
              Erik Snell, P.E.
              Factory Worker (Principal User Experience Designer)
              I am an Autodesk employee and the opinions or commentary I provide are my own and not necessarily that of Autodesk, Inc.

              Comment

                #17
                Wow, thank you for the clarification. Nice to get input directly from the Factory!
                Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin

                Comment

                  #18
                  Originally posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
                  Yes, Ben and Dzatto are correct in their comments. Dave, since I had seen an image of that mock-up project you were doing, because you posted it in Augi some day, I thought about beam to beam connection, which is easy with the Column/Beam Join tool.

                  But unfortunately, yes, it's not easy when it is column to beam. To make it work, the column element would have to be a beam that has been rotated (and disjoined) in elevation view, as in this example. Then the Column/Beam Joint tool works easily again, displaying the arrows!

                  Strange things come out of that factory sometimes!
                  You may have more luck using a column defined as slanted. This tool was renamed to "beam/column" when the slanted columns were released.

                  Erik
                  Erik Snell, P.E.
                  Factory Worker (Principal User Experience Designer)
                  I am an Autodesk employee and the opinions or commentary I provide are my own and not necessarily that of Autodesk, Inc.

                  Comment

                    #19
                    Originally posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
                    Wow, thank you for the clarification. Nice to get input directly from the Factory!
                    My pleasure. I only wish I could "help" more.
                    Erik Snell, P.E.
                    Factory Worker (Principal User Experience Designer)
                    I am an Autodesk employee and the opinions or commentary I provide are my own and not necessarily that of Autodesk, Inc.

                    Comment

                      #20
                      *subtle kick*

                      The last few projects I need to model a part of the structural framing within RAC (2011). I used the mitering tip already, and when inserting the column and beam everything seems right. However, when I intend to change the dimension of the column, let's say from a IPE200 to a IPE240, (don't know if this typology is used in other countries, but the attachment should make things clear) the column automatically constrains at the heart of that column. A user defined constrain (in this case I want the inner side of the inner flange constrained to the grid/ref.plane) at different places automatically results in a warning.

                      Is there some sort of workaround for this, or will resume to be the (IMHO) most annoying disadvantage of RAC?
                      Attached Files
                      Arjan Ikink, BIM-engineer at PHB Deventer
                      LinkedIn

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