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Modelling Q - I want a 3D panel to show every where *except* 3D

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    #1

    Modelling Q - I want a 3D panel to show every where *except* 3D

    Looking for a solution to a slightly annoying modelling problem. For rendering purposes I've started offsetting doors in cabinetry by 1mm, so that when they are arranged in a row there is a barely noticeable split between the faces. (Which technically is what it looks like in real life). This is important for Lumion rendering so that it doesn't treat all the door faces as 1 face. (Hope this is making sense so far.)





    This is fine and the renders are coming out fine but it then means for elevations and sections in Revit this slight offset results in thicker lines (as several lines are so close together they print as one thick line). You can see the double lines here, once these are printed at scale it turns into a thick line. And even if it didn't, I would much rather a single line (dimensioning can be a little frustrating):




    What I was hoping to do was have the flush door *not* show in 3D but show up in elevations. And vice versa, the offset doors only in 3D. I know the obvious solution is to turn off the 3D door panel in elevation and just use a masking region, but we frequently have materials assigned to door panels (timber, stone, etc.) and would like these surface patterns seen in elevation and also need to tag the front panel material. Manually drawing the patterns on in elevation with regions is an option, although potentially tedious, and using "dummy" material tags relies too heavily on people cross checking they are typing the right code.

    Another option is to have the offset door only show in fine and the flush door show in medium, and switch elevations to medium, but there are already other elements in the cabinetry families that are only to be shown in fine view. As far as I can tell, I can't override the detail display level for the door panels individually once they are nested into their joinery families.

    Any ideas on the best way to achieve what I'm after?
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    #2
    Go in the cabinet and have both in the component, as shared nested families.

    Filter in 3d views removed the flush.

    Filter everywhere else removed the offset.

    Done in a few minutes.

    Sent from my Phablet. Please excuse typos... and bad ideas.

    Aaron Maller
    Director
    Parallax Team, Inc.
    Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
    @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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      #3
      Easy solution. *Don't* use masking regions. Use the actual geometry as you prefer. You'll need to model multiple extrusions however. Use view granularity to your advantage.

      For coarse and medium mode, use a simple extrusion, sans doors....model the basic shape. Additionally, for ours, i actually use model lines for door swings, etc..that i want to see in elevation and 'quick' 3D views. Those model lines are set to show in Front/Back only. You can use coarse or medium for your documentation.

      For fine mode, model the doors, carcass, handles etc. Use the Fine setting for rendering.

      Jon


      p.s. or what Aaron said. I type too slow.
      Last edited by kingjosiah; September 1, 2018, 02:16 AM. Reason: Aaron types faster than me

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
        Go in the cabinet and have both in the component, as shared nested families.

        Filter in 3d views removed the flush.

        Filter everywhere else removed the offset.

        Done in a few minutes.

        Sent from my Phablet. Please excuse typos... and bad ideas.

        Aaron Maller
        Director
        Parallax Team, Inc.
        I suspect it may take more than a few minutes to apply the filters to all my elevation and section templates... but a quick test has your solution functioning exactly as I wish, thank you! Actually I can turn off the offset door panels in medium and coarse and whittle down the view templates to only those showing fine detail, even better.

        As an aside, this adds a bunch of extra surfaces to the family, do you see this having much effect on load times? It effectively doubles the amount of elements that have to have material changes applied to them. I'm in the midst of proposing a rather large overhaul to the way we model/document, I'm trying to avoid riots Does having the panels as shared families increase/decrease the load in project?

        Thanks again
        Last edited by LeChumpOfStultz; September 1, 2018, 02:36 AM.

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by kingjosiah View Post
          Easy solution. *Don't* use masking regions. Use the actual geometry as you prefer. You'll need to model multiple extrusions however. Use view granularity to your advantage.

          For coarse and medium mode, use a simple extrusion, sans doors....model the basic shape. Additionally, for ours, i actually use model lines for door swings, etc..that i want to see in elevation and 'quick' 3D views. Those model lines are set to show in Front/Back only. You can use coarse or medium for your documentation.

          For fine mode, model the doors, carcass, handles etc. Use the Fine setting for rendering.

          Jon


          p.s. or what Aaron said. I type too slow.
          The issue with this approach is that we actually need some of the elevations and sections to be in fine detail view (the joinery families included).

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
            Filter in 3d views removed the flush.

            Filter everywhere else removed the offset.
            Actually now that I think about it, the nested offset door panel can just not show anywhere except 3D fine detail, no need for elevation/section filtering. Only in fine detail 3D views will both door panels show up, can easily filter those views as needed.

            In this case the offset door doesn't need to be shared. Which brings me back to my earlier ponderings; given the option is there a case to be made for having it shared?
            Last edited by LeChumpOfStultz; September 1, 2018, 02:45 AM.

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by LeChumpOfStultz View Post
              The issue with this approach is that we actually need some of the elevations and sections to be in fine detail view (the joinery families included).
              Forgive me for asking, but what are you showing in elevations and sections in Fine view that can't be seen in Medium? I'm genuinely curious. It's a constant uphill battle on my end here trying to fight the misconception that anything other than 1/8"=1' should be set to Fine. Unless the view is 1-1/2, 3, 6 or full, i don't see how Fine helps.

              Using the OOTB content, the only families that i've found that are affected by granularity is wide flange steel framing or piping (and piping accessories). Or are you using custom content that differentiates between medium and fine? If you do, that's awesome. Most folks i've come across don't.
              Last edited by kingjosiah; September 1, 2018, 03:16 AM.

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by kingjosiah View Post
                Forgive me for asking, but what are you showing in elevations and sections in Fine view that can't be seen in Medium? I'm genuinely curious. It's a constant uphill battle on my end here trying to fight the misconception that anything other than 1/8"=1' should be set to Fine. Unless the view is 1-1/2, 3, 6 or full, i don't see how Fine helps.

                Using the OOTB content, the only families that i've found that are affected by granularity is wide flange steel framing or piping (and piping accessories). Or are you using custom content that differentiates between medium and fine? If you do, that's awesome. Most folks i've come across don't.
                No need to ask for forgiveness, we should all ask more questions of each other!

                In this instance I have hidden carcass lines and hidden shelf lines set to show only in fine view. We don't want that level of detail for our standard (coarse and medium) elevations. When it comes to documenting things like kitchens and built in joinery/robes, we switch to fine detail elevations/sections in order to pick up things like carcass thicknesses, number of shelves, handles (all part of the family). The elevation in my OP for instance is OK for general elevations, but I switch to a fine detail elevation to document the things I mentioned. In plan there are cabinet door swings.
                Last edited by LeChumpOfStultz; September 1, 2018, 03:48 AM.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Why not just use a map in rendering?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by DanielHurtubise View Post
                    Why not just use a map in rendering?
                    In Lumion it treats all faces of the same material as one face. I'm sure there's a better way around it with other programs and splitting the faces somehow but this seemed like the easiest path (at least for now, and for someone not familiar with many programs outside of Revit).

                    A kitchen elevation, for instance, there would be overhead cupboard doors, sets of drawers, large pantry doors, etc. all of differing sizes. Lumion will read them all as one singular surface, so as far as I understand it I would need to create an individual map for the entire elevation to have any hope of them being read as individual panels, no?

                    If the panels were always in a uniform grid, or if Lumion recognised them as seperate surfaces, then I imagine mapping would be the way to go. Let me know if I've misunderstood what you mean though.
                    Last edited by LeChumpOfStultz; September 1, 2018, 09:34 AM.

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