Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best practices when working remotely while accessing a Revit server?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Best practices when working remotely while accessing a Revit server?

    Recently we've started exploring options of giving staff members robust laptops and docking stations as opposed to running the typical desktop tower set up. This will give our staff the flexibility to take work with them wherever they go including home. I've been experimenting with the set up at home recently and have some questions...

    A little : I have my personal PC at home and used to VPN to my desktop computer that in the office. It worked OK, I never wanted to do any real 'heavy lifting' from home, but it worked great in a pinch. This option was very much a function of my internet connection.

    So now... I have this fancy laptop that I can take home with me, and instead of VPN-ing to the office I simply map our network servers through a VPN client and can access and open my Revit central models through there. I assumed that once I had grabbed a local copy of the central I would be off to the races... Apparently that's not quite how it works. Revit is still maintaining a "heartbeat" between the local copy and the central model, that again, is very much a function of the internet connection and was noticing some definite lag time between mundane tasks, not just syncing to central. Once I restarted my internet hardware (modem and router) my internet speeds drastically increased to closer to what I pay for (different story altogether), the performance I was experiencing was noticeably increased as well.

    The question I have, short of checking out worksets and all that so I am truly working locally, is there a way to circumvent some of these issues? Or will my staff always be limited to whatever internet service they've paid for at their residence? Would turning down the worksharing update frequency help reduce some of this lag time? If I reduce that to every 60 seconds, or to manual, what are the ramifications to that; I haven't found much information regarding that topic.

    What are some best practices when working remotely on a workshared Revit file?

    #2
    A Workshared Revit project needs to throw a lot of data back & forth to the Central file (aka "chatty")
    We have had a few people use our VPN successfully, but when it came time to SWC, it killed the rest of the team. 8-10 minute SWCs were not unusual. And anyone else attempting to save had to wait for them to finish.
    In other words, a VPN is not viable for Revit.
    If you really want people to be able to work out of the office, you'll need some sort of Virtual Machines, like VMWare
    Or go to C4R
    Dave Plumb
    BWBR Architects; St Paul, MN

    CADsplaining: When a BIM rookie tells you how you should have done something.

    Comment


      #3
      Use a Remote Desktop application, so you can run Revit on the same local network as where the central file lives. Your internet connection will only have to handle graphical output delta's and your inputs.
      Some of us have even taken to using their desktops on their smartphones. Not sure if a touchscreen helps with using Revit though :d.
      There must be a better way...

      Ekko Nap
      Professional nitpicker, architect, revit consultant, etc.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by joemcninch View Post
        Recently we've started exploring options of giving staff members robust laptops and docking stations as opposed to running the typical desktop tower set up. This will give our staff the flexibility to take work with them wherever they go including home. I've been experimenting with the set up at home recently and have some questions...

        A little : I have my personal PC at home and used to VPN to my desktop computer that in the office. It worked OK, I never wanted to do any real 'heavy lifting' from home, but it worked great in a pinch. This option was very much a function of my internet connection.


        Before we go too far, we need to establish some correct terminology so that readers dont get confused: There is a VPN connection to your office, and then there is Remote Desktop (where you log in to another machine that is still in the office). They are completely separate things. Chances are, your company makes you VPN in order to use RDP, but its important to distinguish between the two, as far as this conversation goes. When you use RDP for Revit, the "workstation" doing the heavy lifting is obviously still IN the office. Thats another important part. What gets sent over the internet is your commands, and the display on the screen. But all of the *model data* stays "in house" so to speak.

        So now... I have this fancy laptop that I can take home with me, and instead of VPN-ing to the office I simply map our network servers through a VPN client and can access and open my Revit central models through there. I assumed that once I had grabbed a local copy of the central I would be off to the races... Apparently that's not quite how it works. Revit is still maintaining a "heartbeat" between the local copy and the central model, that again, is very much a function of the internet connection and was noticing some definite lag time between mundane tasks, not just syncing to central. Once I restarted my internet hardware (modem and router) my internet speeds drastically increased to closer to what I pay for (different story altogether), the performance I was experiencing was noticeably increased as well.


        So, a few things for you to know: In THIS instance, you are connected via VPN, and are NOT using RDP. This means that actual "model data" is flowing over the internet (as you guessed). What you also need to know is this is not an officially supported workflow from Autodesk, AND it is known to corrupt central models, A LOT. Depending on the companies VPN and how stable and reliable it is, you might get lucky and not have it corrupt models. But when it does corrupt a model, you'll be asking what you can do to "fix it," and there wont be a fix:

        Worksharing from outside the Local Network is only really supported on Revit Server (another series of applications) or Collaboration for Revit (model hosted on Autodesks "internet cloud." Ive been in some offices (with great internet and great VPN) where a single SWC from a VPN connection automatically fragged the central for good. Its ugly.

        There is a technical reason for it, and the reason has to do with the file transmission protocol being different for non-workshared and standard workshared projects, versus Revit Server / C4R projects.

        The next question i typically hear when i explain this to people is:
        But i bought this crazy expensive laptop assuming id be able to work on Revit files remotely! Now what do i do?
        The unfortunate answer is: If you have so much work to do that you take the machine home, do non revit stuff at home, or bring home content to edit, or something. Without Revit Server or C4R, (or Remote Desktop in to a spare machine in the office) you dont have a reliable safe way to work on workshared models from home, unless you take the model home with you (and only one person at a time can do that).

        The question I have, short of checking out worksets and all that so I am truly working locally, is there a way to circumvent some of these issues? Or will my staff always be limited to whatever internet service they've paid for at their residence? Would turning down the worksharing update frequency help reduce some of this lag time? If I reduce that to every 60 seconds, or to manual, what are the ramifications to that; I haven't found much information regarding that topic.


        Not only will they all be hampered by their internet, but your company is also gambling on their employees internet being stable enough with the company VPN, with mission critical files. Its an all around bad idea. Turning down the worksharing frequency will aide the perception of the symptoms, but it wont aide the actual problem at all. All element by element borrowing is still done at the Central File level, in real time.

        What are some best practices when working remotely on a workshared Revit file?
        1. Dont.
        2. If you must, use Remote Desktop and a spare machine still in the office.
        3. If you dont like RDP, convince management to buy a Virtual Desktop Solution with real dedicated vGPU terminals at the office.
        4. If you dont like any of the three, configure EVERY laptop that has to be workable from home as its own Revit Server Accelerator (unsupported and finicky to maintain), then also set up Revit Server Accelerators at the company, then move all your models to Revit Server, explain to IT the difficulties that means for backing up the models and they they have to do it quasi-manually, explain to users that they cant shut off their laptops for a half hour after performing a SWC, and get ready for the inevitable problems when someone DOES close their laptop lid early, and they lock everyone else out of the file.
        5. Buy C4R for each user. 800 bucks per year per user. Host the Model at Autodesk.

        Ive read, seen, heard, and done it all. Trying to "get hacky" with it to make it work, is a mistake. A "decent" dell desktop tower than can run just about every revit model on the planet, is 1600 bucks. Buy another one. Put it under your desk. Remote in to it. Call it a day.
        Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
        @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

        Comment


          #5
          Twiceroadsfool - This is exactly the kind of information I was looking to get! Thank you very much.

          You are right I was misrepresenting what I was doing VPN / Remote desktop, and I do know the difference, just used the wrong nomenclature.

          Comment


            #6
            Although I run a small team with small projects, I've tested just about every non-costly technique and hack to make this work. Here are some additional comments:
            • Don't try WebDAV either. Depending on the client and your settings, it may look like it saves fast, but there is caching which can lead to corruption
            • This may not apply in your case but we've discovered with a Synology NAS, turning on it's Cloud Sync will corrupt the Central file, even you're not trying to be clever and use the sync to work remotely.
            • So far for us, Remote Desktop is the only viable solution for workshared projects. We're using TeamViewer.
            Fred Blome
            Residential Architect

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
              [/FONT][/COLOR]
              5. Buy C4R for each user. 800 bucks per year per user. Host the Model at Autodesk.
              I now this is an old thread but I'm hoping this will get picked up!

              Is there are reason this was in position 5, and not really expended on?

              I believe it's now been replaced by BIM360. We're looking into using this on a project where the will be a lot of remote working, and we will need input from other companies. We've been recommended it by our reseller, but looking at the what you've said there it's the only option that lets them sell us anything! If we assume everyone has a half decent internet connection and the company is happy with the price will this work well?

              We had assumed that ther other trades would e-mail us their changes and we'd load them into the central model, but it seems like BIM360 would allow them to work on it directly which on the face of it seems preferable?

              Thanks in advance for any help

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by tomhawes View Post
                I believe it's now been replaced by BIM360.
                Correct.


                Originally posted by tomhawes View Post
                We're looking into using this on a project where the will be a lot of remote working, and we will need input from other companies. We've been recommended it by our reseller, but looking at the what you've said there it's the only option that lets them sell us anything! If we assume everyone has a half decent internet connection and the company is happy with the price will this work well?
                Yes it should work just fine. I've been using this service since its inception and it's worth every penny.

                Originally posted by tomhawes View Post
                We had assumed that ther other trades would e-mail us their changes and we'd load them into the central model, but it seems like BIM360 would allow them to work on it directly which on the face of it seems preferable?
                That is correct, everyone can be in the same Central Model at the same time and work simultaneously, with the performance being close to, or the same as everyone being in one office, depending on network and hardware.

                -TZ
                Tannar Z. Frampton ™
                Frampton & Associates, Inc.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by tomhawes View Post
                  Is there are reason this was in position 5, and not really expended on?
                  It was in position 5 because this particular thread was started by someone that was already considering working remotely on physical hardware, with files on remote servers, so i expanded on the complexities of those options, first.

                  Advising the OP to consider BIM360 (formerly C4R) is a completely alternative route, so i suggested it last. Order shown was not intended to be an order of recommendations.
                  Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
                  @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Once everything is set up in BIM 360, the time saved in not emailing models back and forth pretty much pays for the subscription.
                    As far as everyone working in the same model, I'd still split them apart by discipline. BIM 360 models can still be linked into each other & you won't bump into each other as much with separate models. Also, your SWC times will be better a.) because your model is smaller and b.) you won't be waiting for someone else to finish their SWC
                    Dave Plumb
                    BWBR Architects; St Paul, MN

                    CADsplaining: When a BIM rookie tells you how you should have done something.

                    Comment

                    Related Topics

                    Collapse

                    Working...
                    X