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Converting a door family to a curtain wall door

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  • GMcDowellJr
    replied
    Originally posted by DavidLarson View Post
    Are you trying to drive me to drink? The mere thought of that makes me twitch
    Heck, I did it back in the days of ADT. Worked great. A lot cheaper than an architect doing data entry.

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  • Dave Jones
    replied
    Originally posted by snowyweston View Post
    God I love door chats.
    me too!! They bring out the best of Aaron :hide: Seriously, this is how I learn stuff. There's just me here and I do the same things over and over again but I'm always looking for ways to do things faster, more accurately, better. And that's why I asked my original question. I frankly had never heard of nesting things like louvers or different panel types in a curtain wall door family. For me, my aluminum stile and rail doors are 98% always the same, either medium stile or wide stile. They always have 10" bottom rails and for the most part never have cross rails. I'm going to play with a curtain wall door with a nested louver this weekend so I'll probably be back for more abuse...uh, help ;-P

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  • snowyweston
    replied
    Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    It wont work, worth a damn.
    Mate, why d'ya think I haven't done it yet!


    God I love door chats.

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  • DavidLarson
    replied
    Are you trying to drive me to drink? The mere thought of that makes me twitch

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  • GMcDowellJr
    replied
    Originally posted by DavidLarson View Post
    You can even take an autocad user who has never even seen Revit and have them swapping out panels inside of an hour.
    You can have an admin, with no experience do it in the same time as well from a schedule!

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  • DavidLarson
    replied
    Nested panels and frames have the added benefit of being able to be swapped out by people new to Revit without any great difficulty. You can even take an autocad user who has never even seen Revit and have them swapping out panels inside of an hour.

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  • Twiceroadsfool
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave Jones View Post
    Well, there you go, once again I'm different. All of my curtain wall doors in my projects have subframing but I don't build that into a curtain wall door family I just create another curtain wall type in the project, replace the curtain panel with the subframe cw type, then replace the resulting curtain panel with the door.
    Well, your question was "why would one need nested leavesand frames in a curtain wall door family?" The answer is: Not everyone wants to deal with that workflow. Why would i want to select a panel, swap it for another CW Type, select the panel in THAT and swap it to a Door, THEN make adjustments," when i could JUST swap the Top Level Panel, and end up with the exact same result? (BTW, thats hypothetical that its the same result, which it isnt. More on that below).

    And, my curtain wall pairs of doors are pairs of doors that schedule correctly for size etc so I don't understand your comment about a double door being two separate leaves.
    Well, you said "the leaves are the families" which lead me to believe that for a double door, you place two curtain panel doors next to each other, with no mullion in between... which tags and schedules as two doors, which isnt what any architecture firm ive ever talked to would want. Now, maybe that isnt what you meant: Maybe you meant that you have a "Single leaf" component and a "Double leaf" component, and that they dont use Nested panels/leafs at all either: NOW, when you need to change Rail/Stile dimensions, or materiality, or profiles of the panels, or anything, you have two (or more) families to go chase around in the project. With Shared Nested families you dont, plain and simple.
    My doors also have parametric stile and rail widths and depths, cross rail with parameters for height, location, width and depth and with visibilty controls, but still nothing nested (except door hdwe as previously mentioned)
    Which is great... for you. How many options for Rails and Stiles do you have built in each of your CW Door families? 5 rails and 5 stiles? What about louvers? Custom Panels? Half Lites with custom metal panels below? The fact is: Trying to put all the constraints and parametrics in the parent door families themselves means more work, plain and simple. That, or eventually cutting bait and doing a ton of different save-as doors, for all the different panel types. Except Now you have to manage all of those, AND Profile Families AND Mullions, for the custom "Frame type" that you are doing as an intermediate CW Type for a frame.

    And when THAT frame changes its depth, or alters the door Stop location because a door panel changes thickness, now you have to go edit profiles, and edit mullions, or duplicate mullions, to swap profiles, to edit the CW Type that is the subframe, and all of that....... When if they are nested, you just change one parameter.

    There are ALL KINDS of upsides to having Curtain Wall Doors with nested Panels AND nested Frames, and there are (to date) ZERO downsides. Whether or not *you* choose to use them or not, for the majority of firms out there who model division 08 and want to get it done accurately and quickly, nested will lay waste to non-nested every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

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  • DavidLarson
    replied
    Don't forget the nested hardware groups. They get to play in my models too

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  • cheinaranta
    replied
    Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Its crappy both ways, you are just deciding where you want the crappiness to be (no joke).

    1. If you use the OOTB behavior, the door always LOOKS correct in 3D and elevation, but the door schedule might be completely stupid.

    2. If you use the behavior of my doors (Parameters set door size, gaps show up if the grids are too far apart, overlap shows up if they are too close) then the Door schedule shows what you intend, and the 3D and elevation look completely stupid, if its modeled wrong.

    I like my setup better, because i dont WANT it looking correct if it really is off by small amounts. I want the model and drawings to show me its wrong, and i want to fix it as soon as i know. FWIW, there are also "check parameters" in the instance properties of my CW doors, that TELL the users how much its off, so they know what the adjustments are they have to make.

    As for what the frame does... Thats up to you: My frames always follow the Grid Lines, my Panels always stay with whats typed in for sizes. But sure... you can make the frame follow the door sizes too.
    A third option? lol I never thought to have the frame follow grids and the door by parameter.

    First option is easy, doors filling the space between mullions, but it might not be the intent you want and it's easy to forget about it. It looks pretty though.

    Second option, doors driven by parameter, it forces you to think. Do I really want the doors to be an odd number and fill between the mullions or do I want a normal sized doors and change the mullion pattern.

    I like that second option...

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  • Dave Jones
    replied
    Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Says you.

    There are a lot more options than that, when you work in Architecture.
    Well, there you go, once again I'm different. All of my curtain wall doors in my projects have subframing but I don't build that into a curtain wall door family I just create another curtain wall type in the project, replace the curtain panel with the subframe cw type, then replace the resulting curtain panel with the door. And, my curtain wall pairs of doors are pairs of doors that schedule correctly for size etc so I don't understand your comment about a double door being two separate leaves. My doors also have parametric stile and rail widths and depths, cross rail with parameters for height, location, width and depth and with visibilty controls, but still nothing nested (except door hdwe as previously mentioned)

    Leave a comment:

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