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Converting a door family to a curtain wall door

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    #11
    Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    FWIW I use the same nested shared panels and hardware. If your frames do the actual wall cutting (and have wall frame profiles modeled accurately) they won't be the same for cw, so you'll need different frames.

    Sent from my Phablet. Please excuse typos... and bad ideas.

    Aaron Maller
    Director
    Parallax Team, Inc.
    That's good to know. My frames do the wall cutting.
    ​My ID was stolen. Now I'm only called Dav

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      #12
      You can still use the same panels. You just need new Frames. I have CW Frames, and regular Frames. Then i have CW Doors, and regular Doors.
      Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
      @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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        #13
        Excellent. A new frame is no big deal. Not after making so many others. Especially after doing the same thing for windows and cabinets too.
        ​My ID was stolen. Now I'm only called Dav

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          #14
          To derail this a bit as I'm about to embark on CW Doors shortly. IF I remember correctly, you can either have the mullion gridlines drive the size of the frame and doors (typical OotB behaviour) or you can set the door size, frame follows then you need to adjust mullion gridlines to the frame sizes.
          Commercial sliders... makes sense to have them fixed sizes, but what about just a typical CW door? Any advantage/disadvantage?
          Chris Heinaranta | Architectural Technologist

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            #15
            Its crappy both ways, you are just deciding where you want the crappiness to be (no joke).

            1. If you use the OOTB behavior, the door always LOOKS correct in 3D and elevation, but the door schedule might be completely stupid.

            2. If you use the behavior of my doors (Parameters set door size, gaps show up if the grids are too far apart, overlap shows up if they are too close) then the Door schedule shows what you intend, and the 3D and elevation look completely stupid, if its modeled wrong.

            I like my setup better, because i dont WANT it looking correct if it really is off by small amounts. I want the model and drawings to show me its wrong, and i want to fix it as soon as i know. FWIW, there are also "check parameters" in the instance properties of my CW doors, that TELL the users how much its off, so they know what the adjustments are they have to make.

            As for what the frame does... Thats up to you: My frames always follow the Grid Lines, my Panels always stay with whats typed in for sizes. But sure... you can make the frame follow the door sizes too.
            Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
            @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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              #16
              I'm going to make my frames follow door size. We always model mullions the same size so making them work with the door size is not difficult to do.
              ​My ID was stolen. Now I'm only called Dav

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                #17
                Originally posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
                Children families as in shared nested leaves and frames, I think.
                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                why would one need nested leaves and frames in a curtain wall door family?? The family is the door leave(s) and the frame is the curtain wall whose curtain panel is being replaced by a curtain wall door...
                I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

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                  #18
                  Says you.

                  There are a lot more options than that, when you work in Architecture.

                  There are Doors where the Curtain Wall Mullions are the frame, and there are doors where there is a smaller "frame" that is inbound of the main mullions. They may still be *mullions* as far as the system is concerned, but a LOT of architecture firms dont even bother modeling them at all. Those that do model them, dont typically want to place three extra curtain grid lines just to drop in three mullions that are just a door frame, so that they can also have to maintain extra profiles and extra mullion components that have door stops in them... So they get built as a nested Frame (which works like a champ).

                  Nested Panels: There are MANY styles of Leaves that go in Curtain Wall Doors. Different sized Rails/Stiles, with cross bars, without crossbars, Solid Doors (in some cases), and so on.

                  Also, you arent correct that "the family is the leaf." A double door that was modeled that way would show up as 2 single doors, not as a double door. That isnt what the deliverable is expected to be in an architectural set of documents, nor in a code review. It might be that way when you schedule your materials, but not everyone is doing the same type of work you are.

                  ALL of that is done through nested/shared Frames and Panels.
                  Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
                  @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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                    #19
                    Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
                    Says you.

                    There are a lot more options than that, when you work in Architecture.
                    Well, there you go, once again I'm different. All of my curtain wall doors in my projects have subframing but I don't build that into a curtain wall door family I just create another curtain wall type in the project, replace the curtain panel with the subframe cw type, then replace the resulting curtain panel with the door. And, my curtain wall pairs of doors are pairs of doors that schedule correctly for size etc so I don't understand your comment about a double door being two separate leaves. My doors also have parametric stile and rail widths and depths, cross rail with parameters for height, location, width and depth and with visibilty controls, but still nothing nested (except door hdwe as previously mentioned)
                    I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

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                      #20
                      Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
                      Its crappy both ways, you are just deciding where you want the crappiness to be (no joke).

                      1. If you use the OOTB behavior, the door always LOOKS correct in 3D and elevation, but the door schedule might be completely stupid.

                      2. If you use the behavior of my doors (Parameters set door size, gaps show up if the grids are too far apart, overlap shows up if they are too close) then the Door schedule shows what you intend, and the 3D and elevation look completely stupid, if its modeled wrong.

                      I like my setup better, because i dont WANT it looking correct if it really is off by small amounts. I want the model and drawings to show me its wrong, and i want to fix it as soon as i know. FWIW, there are also "check parameters" in the instance properties of my CW doors, that TELL the users how much its off, so they know what the adjustments are they have to make.

                      As for what the frame does... Thats up to you: My frames always follow the Grid Lines, my Panels always stay with whats typed in for sizes. But sure... you can make the frame follow the door sizes too.
                      A third option? lol I never thought to have the frame follow grids and the door by parameter.

                      First option is easy, doors filling the space between mullions, but it might not be the intent you want and it's easy to forget about it. It looks pretty though.

                      Second option, doors driven by parameter, it forces you to think. Do I really want the doors to be an odd number and fill between the mullions or do I want a normal sized doors and change the mullion pattern.

                      I like that second option...
                      Chris Heinaranta | Architectural Technologist

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