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    #1

    Ceiling Height/Top Plate deviation

    Hi all,
    I'm wondering how others have handled the condition where you've got a 12' top plate and the ceiling will be right there at the top plate. I want my ceiling to read 12'-0" but instead I get 11'-10 3/4" because of the gyp thickness. How can my ceiling tag (which I've created with a spot elevation so I can tag the underside of the roof) to read 12'-0" instead? I can technically create a ceiling at 12'-0", hide the roof, tag the ceiling, then unhide the roof, but that seems like a clumsy workaround.

    Thought?

    TIA!
    Tags: None
    #2
    hmmm .... bump. Am I the only person who's run into this issue before?

    Comment

      #3
      If it's only 1 story you could try spot elevations with the top surface targeted. Ceiling tags are only going to give you the offset of the ceiling. Over here a 12' ceiling is actually 12' to the bottom of the ceiling, but then these are usually suspended ACT or GYP, and never wood framing.

      Comment

        #4
        I'd just leave the ceiling tag at 11'-10 3/4". That is the ceiling height. We do a lot of wood frame stuff where the ceiling is attached to the trusses and unless someone wants or needs an actual 12'-0" ceiling the heights always end up a little weird. Personally I'd rather have clean framing dimensions because in reality - the GWB installer is installing on the framing, they don't really care about the height in that case.
        Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO

        chad
        BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by cellophane View Post
          I'd just leave the ceiling tag at 11'-10 3/4". That is the ceiling height. We do a lot of wood frame stuff where the ceiling is attached to the trusses and unless someone wants or needs an actual 12'-0" ceiling the heights always end up a little weird. Personally I'd rather have clean framing dimensions because in reality - the GWB installer is installing on the framing, they don't really care about the height in that case.
          This.

          And my ONLY other comment on the subject is: When we develop our modeling standards and annotation standards, we need to be a little more practical about how we model and tag things, and what those values represent.

          The project im working on right now had quite a big issue, over certain items being marked as "AFF" even though they were tagged off the level. With various finish thicknesses on the floors, it created some pretty decent complexities, concrete work wise. And for what? Because weve always tagged things as "AFF?"

          If you REALLY need that ceiling to be held at exactly 12', then raise it up to be at 12'. If its as Cellophane said, level it at 11'-10 3/4". And in BOTH cases, make sure your Legends and notes stipulate that its above the LEVEL (as the tag works), unless you are putting in LEVELS at every finish (yikes).

          And- again- if you need more height, just raise it up and let the tag read what the tag reads.
          Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
          @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
            The project im working on right now had quite a big issue, over certain items being marked as "AFF" even though they were tagged off the level. With various finish thicknesses on the floors, it created some pretty decent complexities, concrete work wise. And for what? Because weve always tagged things as "AFF?"

            If you REALLY need that ceiling to be held at exactly 12', then raise it up to be at 12'. If its as Cellophane said, level it at 11'-10 3/4". And in BOTH cases, make sure your Legends and notes stipulate that its above the LEVEL (as the tag works), unless you are putting in LEVELS at every finish (yikes).
            That is a fantastic point, and not just in terms of modeling & legends. From a practical standpoint / order of installation, the ceiling is almost always installed way before the finish floors are, and usually before any gypcrete is installed. If floors are concrete in a metal pan it isn't quite as relevant but the wood assemblies we use all use gypcrete on top of the sheathing (UL L506 or similar) which means there is an additional 3/4" - 1" difference in the tagged value and installation time value.
            Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO

            chad
            BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

            Comment

              #7
              Its an issue on Concrete and Metal Pan, because of how we tend to model and document finishes. For us, at least. We model Slabs down from the level, and finishes up. So the ceiling height is NEVER "AFF." Its "above the level."

              We had to have ALL KINDS of meetings about this recently, because a lot of architects just get in the habit of writing "AFF" and then we have to explain: Well, okay, but were going to RFI just about every concrete section, floor transition, and so on. Because of things are marked as AFF, and the finishes are all assumed to be flat, flush, and level, its a BIG change to a lot of the concrete work... All over a note that doesnt even need to be present.
              Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
              @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

              Comment

                #8
                How do you get 1.25" difference? 5/8" Sheathing over 5/8" Gyp? Thought most homes the gyp bd is attached directly to the trusses so a 12' ceiling is in reality 11'-3/8"?
                Michael "MP" Patrick (Deceased - R.I.P)

                Comment

                  #9
                  AFF seems to have morphed into a nominal term similar to 2x4. In any event, a contractor knows what needs to be done and will install ceilings using accepted construction tolerances.
                  Bettisworth North

                  Comment

                    #10
                    As far as the ceiling tag goes, if the finish is really applied directly to the structure, as is the case in most residential construction, or some light commercial wood-frame construction, I just use a ceiling tag that has the type mark and then "B.O. Structure". Bottom of Structure. No need to list the height since the ceiling installer doesn't have to measure the height. He just puts the gyp directly up to the truss or joist. I prefer this over having long, strung out ceiling height dimensions in my tag i.e. 11'-10 1/2" no thank you. That takes up way too much room on my ceiling plans.

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