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Changing Level Elevations & Group Behavior

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    Changing Level Elevations & Group Behavior

    Dumb question regarding groups & modifying level heights:

    I've seen this pop up multiple times but I can't figure out what actually causes it and worse, can't replicate it. I have my building with groups for units (hotels, assisted living etc) and without fail we need to change the floor-to-floor heights. No problem - adjust the floor to floor heights, things process, there are one or two fix group errors, I create new types and move on. The problem is that some of the groups now have their level offset at 0 and some have a number associated with it that seems to be the distance the level changed. if I open up the group, the nested groups are a mix of 0 and the new offset value.

    1. What causes this?
    2. Any easy way to prevent it? I'm guessing it has something to do with attachments / hosting but I'm not sure what. Walls are all unconnected and anything that is hosted has the host in the group.

    :beer::beer:
    Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO


    chad
    BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

    #2
    I see this all the time and my only known fix is it manually select each group, change the offset to 0 and correct the level without moving the mouse away from properties ��
    There are no stupid questions, only stupid people

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      #3
      I just spent an hour messing around with this and the only thing I can find that is causing a problem is nested groups. Basically - If I add the individual families to the unit groups everything moves around with no apparent problems. If I create a group from the families (kitchenettes, furniture, etc) and then nest that group into the unit I have problems. But not all nested groups cause the issue so I'm still stumped. :banghead:
      Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO


      chad
      BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

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        #4
        Are the families in the nested groups hosted?


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        Greg McDowell Jr
        about.me/GMcDowellJr

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          #5
          I'm not sure if it will solve your issue, but I started setting global parameters for floor to floor heights on the high-rise I'm currently working on because I was having the same issue with toilet and elevator lobby groups freaking out whenever we changed the floor heights. If all the levels change together, there are less chances of groups seeing different conditions. Obviously you still want to keep as much as possible in the group referenced to a single level and no outside geometry.

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            #6
            Originally posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
            Are the families in the nested groups hosted?
            There are a couple hosted families but the host is in the group: Doors -> Walls, Sink -> Counter Top; that kind of thing.

            Originally posted by chris.macko View Post
            I'm not sure if it will solve your issue, but I started setting global parameters for floor to floor heights on the high-rise I'm currently working on because I was having the same issue with toilet and elevator lobby groups freaking out whenever we changed the floor heights. If all the levels change together, there are less chances of groups seeing different conditions. Obviously you still want to keep as much as possible in the group referenced to a single level and no outside geometry.
            In the single test I tried just now that didn't work. The problem is that the floor-to-floor heights are different: 12'-0" 1st Floor, 9'-0" 2nd & 3rd Floor.

            I did find this (rather old) post about group behavior and it seems at least semi-consistent. Groups on their own don't have problems. 2 Nested Groups with no walls are fine. 2 Nested Groups with walls bug out, but not always. My walls are all unconnected so I don't think connections are the issue.

            What really bugs me is that I can't figure out where the inconsistency is. Some groups with walls work fine (nested or not) and some break.

            progress: https://www.screencast.com/t/l16RzSou
            Last edited by cellophane; June 23, 2017, 03:22 PM.
            Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO


            chad
            BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

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              #7
              Cellophane for this exact reason is why I teach users to used nested families instead of nested groups. Create a kitchenette family that has all the nested components in it and place it as you would a group. users will complain at first because they don't want to Edit Family instead of Edit Group but in essence it is the same thing.
              Brian Mackey |BD Mackey Consulting
              www.bdmackeyconsulting.com/blog
              @Twitter

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                #8
                No offense meant, but its nowhere near the same thing.

                1. Families cant have Walls, Floors, Ceilings, Rooms, or Roofs... All things that end up in Apartment or Patient Room Model Groups.
                2. Nested Families wont let you use Cut Geometry in the family, and have it show up correctly in the project.
                3. Since you cant have any of the hostING items from the first item, you cant have any hostED items, either. No Doors, etc.

                But, on topic... Changing levels sucks, when Groups are already placed. If the project isnt fully annotated, cutting (then changing groups), then pasting to the level, is sometimes handy.

                But if you really want to get freaked, out, start tracking which one was the *original* group, and which ones are not. They behave differently...
                Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
                @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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                  #9
                  I am totally offended how dare you

                  I didn't intend to create an entire unit as a nested family only families that typically get generated as a subgroup. In hotels I see no need to have a group for a bed and two night stands, simply make it a family that can be placed. Yes i agree you lose the Cut Geometry correctness, which is a drag, but alot of times I see groups generated that in my mind can be simple nested families which will behave better than a group.
                  Brian Mackey |BD Mackey Consulting
                  www.bdmackeyconsulting.com/blog
                  @Twitter

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                    #10
                    Just my 2c here. When working with groups it's well worth revisiting this article on best practice.
                    Groups turn out to be extremely fragile and not really all that useful except for the most rudimentary applications such as grouping furniture etc. I wish it wasn't so.

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