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Why does Revit NOT want my joist to not be on a bearing wall?

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    Why does Revit NOT want my joist to not be on a bearing wall?

    Why is this logic built in Revit? See vid.
    When I set the wall below to bearing it pulls my joists back, to the face of the wall, When I set it to non bearing they connect back out to the rim board. I'm sure it works for someone out there, and I'm guessing it's more of a commercial side of things but I would like to know what drove this behavior to be put into Revit. It's been that way for quite some time (many many years), and when I turned it into support, I got a canned response that they were looking in to it, and that was the end of it.

    http://screencast.com/t/o32IyJtyFcD9

    #2
    Well, cause it's bearing. It's supposed to be bearing joists. I'm guessing that there's a little wide snap range. Would be nice to be able to overrule it sometimes.
    If you don't want that, set the beam back through the properties. Although I must admit, I don't know if it influences your analytical model. Otherwise, it would suck big time...

    what happens when you cut them using a refplane at the desired offset?
    Martijn de Riet
    Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
    MdR Advies
    Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

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      #3
      I don't follow... why would you pull joists back from the bearing that they are supposed to be bearing on? What do you mean wide snap range?

      I'd like whatever it's doing to be overruled all the time. Every time I place a beam system I have to do something to each joist which is hundreds of joists on every project. which is why I abandoned Revit's structural templates/families years ago and made my own joists from generic templates that ignore Revit's undocumented behavior in this regard... but then I lose all the nice things that Revit gives you when using structural elements like cutting, coping, connection, etc. We draw each piece one by one since we started using revit becuase of this behavior, It made more sense to have expected behavior than to risk error and frustration when something automatically changed without you possibly knowing about it.

      How do I set the beam back through the properties? I can't seem to figure that out.

      More reference planes?

      I did find this workflow to get them to where they need to go though. Use beam and column joins and pick every single end of the joist (the little blue arrow). Then cope every single joist to the rim board. Then set the coping distance to 0 or every single joist.

      Not into Revit Analysis, so I don't much care about that part..... Yet.

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        #4
        Originally posted by DoTheBIM View Post
        I don't follow... why would you pull joists back from the bearing that they are supposed to be bearing on? What do you mean wide snap range?

        I'd like whatever it's doing to be overruled all the time. Every time I place a beam system I have to do something to each joist which is hundreds of joists on every project. which is why I abandoned Revit's structural templates/families years ago and made my own joists from generic templates that ignore Revit's undocumented behavior in this regard... but then I lose all the nice things that Revit gives you when using structural elements like cutting, coping, connection, etc. We draw each piece one by one since we started using revit becuase of this behavior, It made more sense to have expected behavior than to risk error and frustration when something automatically changed without you possibly knowing about it.

        How do I set the beam back through the properties? I can't seem to figure that out.

        More reference planes?

        I did find this workflow to get them to where they need to go though. Use beam and column joins and pick every single end of the joist (the little blue arrow). Then cope every single joist to the rim board. Then set the coping distance to 0 or every single joist.

        Not into Revit Analysis, so I don't much care about that part..... Yet.
        It is not undocumented behavior. You can find the information you need here.

        http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Revit/e...717-Cutback717

        The structural settings (little arrow on the bottom of the structure tab) lets you set the cutback distance for structural members.
        Last edited by JeffH; August 26, 2011, 01:56 PM.
        Jeff Hanson
        Sr. Subject Matter Expert
        Autodesk, Revit - User Experience

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          #5
          I had similar problem a few days ago. Cutback settings fixed the problem.
          http://www.revitforum.org/showthread...eam-Connection

          One thing bothers me though. Cutback is set (by default) to a fraction of an inch, but actual cutback in the model is a couple of inches . Why?
          Last edited by PijPiwo; August 26, 2011, 02:01 PM.

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            #6
            The documentation I was referring to is 'why Revit pulls back joists/beams from bearing walls that they sit on top of'. I get why this happens when putting a beam into the side of the wall, but not on top.

            OK now that I found the settings you refer too... it looks like I can only control the cutback symbolic representation not the actual cutback distance of the geometry.

            The coping distance (for when using the coping tool) also seems undocumented and possibly hard coded to 1" by default.

            For some reason after fudging around... now all my joist to joist connections join up to 0" cutback as I draw them - like I want, before they where just holding back some distance from the piece they were joined to. joists on top of wall still behave badly for me.

            5 min later....Ugh, just tried on a scratch project and they now have gaps again. I'm
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