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    #1

    Advanced pipe tag

    Hi there,

    I have such an issue that I need to add a certain value to pipe risers which would show if the pipe riser on a floor plan has a direction going up or down from that floor (I know that Revit has a riser/ drop symbol which it already creates automatically, but that is not accepted in this situation) or going through the floor to the next.

    We are using the following symbols:
    A- going down
    Ü- going up
    A/Ü - going up and down (through the whole floor)


    Now at first sight I could just add that value to a comment or add it through a shared parameter. But the issue is, that when my riser is going, let´s say, down from the 3rd floor, through the second and going down through the ground floor then it will be the same pipe on my ground floor plan, second floor plan and third floor plan. But the value for the tag should be different on each floor plan. On the ground floor it should display A/Ü (going up and down), second floor also A/Ü and on the third floor A (going down).

    Now I´d like to hear some smart ideas how to achieve this without doing any stupid work. Because I could achieve this by doing 3 different tags and create 3 different parameters, but that would be nonsense.

    Even better would be a solution that would automatically recognize if the pipe is going up or down or both on that floor and then it would display that value into my tag.

    Much appreciated if anyone has any good ideas to do this or even improve the process.
    Tags: drop/riser, floor plan, pipe riser, pipe tag
    #2
    Do you mean the FLOW direction of whatever is in the pipe? (Much more difficult...)
    Or just 'to above' and 'to below'?
    "One must imagine Sisyphus happy." Albert Camus - "The innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may ​do well under the new." Nicolo Machiavelli -"Things that are too complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple." Mikhail Kalashnikov

    Comment

      #3
      This would only be used in plan views, correct?

      So the real question is can you tag a pipe based on its extents compared to the associated level of the view you are in and the levels above/below the view you are in. I still think view range would also be a factor in this as well...

      Stating whether it is going up or down could be subjective and I think that language could make it confusing.

      You would need to identify the extents of the pipe and all levels that it crosses. Then evaluate the view you are in along with its view range. Then tag accordingly.

      Seems like a potential Dynamo application to fill out a shared parameter.
      Thomas N Fuller II

      LinkedIn

      Comment

        #4
        No, nothing related to flow. Just the above or below.

        Comment

          #5
          Yes, this would be only used in plan view.

          Yes, well it would need to be exactly the same logic as Revit is showing drop/rise but instead of a symbol it needs to be a value inserted into a tag. Because how the symbols are displayed is exactly what we need.

          I had a feeling that this could be a Dynamo thing. Only thing is that my Dynamo expertise is like 3 tutorials atm.

          Comment

            #6
            I made a dynamo script that finds all pipes/ducts/etc that are vertical (checks if the endpoint coordinates are above eachother) and then turns on a 'Is Vertical' parameter. Then it is possible to filter by 'Is Vertical = True and Length>1m' and use Tag All to add a rise/drop symbol. (Here the standard is arrows pointing up or down).
            Its still neccesary to go round and check if the symbol is up or down.. but it saves some time and I mostly use it for waste water calculations that need to know if the pipe is vertical.


            It would be possible to add a check that determines if the vertical pipes go through the upper and lower levels of the current view, or both, and then place the correct tag or set the parameters.
            Using parameters in a pipe for Up/Down/Both might be a problem because then you would need to split your pipes at each level for it to be correct in all views.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by josephpeel; January 18, 2017, 02:22 PM.
            "One must imagine Sisyphus happy." Albert Camus - "The innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may ​do well under the new." Nicolo Machiavelli -"Things that are too complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple." Mikhail Kalashnikov

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by josephpeel View Post
              I made a dynamo script that finds all pipes/ducts/etc that are vertical (checks if the endpoint coordinates are above eachother) and then turns on a 'Is Vertical' parameter. Then it is possible to filter by 'Is Vertical = True and Length>1m' and use Tag All to add a rise/drop symbol. (Here the standard is arrows pointing up or down).
              Its still neccesary to go round and check if the symbol is up or down.. but it saves some time and I mostly use it for waste water calculations that need to know if the pipe is vertical.


              It would be possible to add a check that determines if the vertical pipes go through the upper and lower levels of the current view, or both, and then place the correct tag or set the parameters.
              Using parameters in a pipe for Up/Down/Both might be a problem because then you would need to split your pipes at each level for it to be correct in all views.
              Wow, very creative! Do you find that your Dynamo script bogs down the model as it applies that value to every pipe in the model? I've made similarly expansive dynamo scripts for mechanical equipment and ran into noticeable performance issues as the DYN did its thing.

              As for OPs question, I've never found a satisfactory "smart" solution for this. What I ended up doing was having a single Pipe Tag Family that contains 12 separate Labels, all overlapping each other and each with their visibility controlled by a Yes/No Type parameter. The types are:

              [Pipe Size]
              [Pipe Size] UP
              [Pipe Size] DN
              [Pipe Size] UP & DN
              EX. [Pipe Size]
              EX. [Pipe Size] UP
              EX. [Pipe Size] DN
              EX. [Pipe Size] UP & DN
              RX. [Pipe Size]
              RX. [Pipe Size] UP
              RX. [Pipe Size] DN
              RX. [Pipe Size] UP & DN


              This way, for new work, existing, and demo, I have a tag for the Pipe Size only, "Up", "Down", and "Up and Down" (i.e. a riser crossing the floor and ceiling.) The nice thing is that it's a single family to load and manage, the not-so-nice thing is that I have to manually select the correct Type every time I place a tag. But as OP said, one floor's "up" is another floor's "down", so there really isn't a smarter solution to this that I could find.

              This is one of the many things on the plumbing/piping side that Autodesk has simply left undone, IMO. The HVAC and Electrical sides are fairly well developed, but it seems that we're always scrambling to cobble together solutions for plumbing and piping. Autodesk hasn't made a single plumbing improvement since I started using Revit back in 2010.
              Last edited by Necro99; January 18, 2017, 03:14 PM.

              Comment

                #8
                Not really. Obviously its best to run this sort of thing when no one else is in working in the model (Dynamo user will own all the pipes etc..), but adding data to parameters doesnt affect performance unless you constantly do something with it (eg calcs in schedules or filters in views do slow things down).

                Its true the MEP functionality in revit is poor, but I also dont think you can expect Autodesk to understand what all the different aspects of the industry need. I am personally glad they have focused on making the program as open as possible, so users can develop their own solutions. With dynamo you can do pretty much anything you want to without the stupid limitations of revits UI (Filter by Offset? or Type name???) , it might just take a while to figure out how.
                Last edited by josephpeel; January 18, 2017, 04:13 PM.
                "One must imagine Sisyphus happy." Albert Camus - "The innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may ​do well under the new." Nicolo Machiavelli -"Things that are too complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple." Mikhail Kalashnikov

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Necro99 View Post
                  Wow, very creative! Do you find that your Dynamo script bogs down the model as it applies that value to every pipe in the model? I've made similarly expansive dynamo scripts for mechanical equipment and ran into noticeable performance issues as the DYN did its thing.

                  As for OPs question, I've never found a satisfactory "smart" solution for this. What I ended up doing was having a single Pipe Tag Family that contains 12 separate Labels, all overlapping each other and each with their visibility controlled by a Yes/No Type parameter. The types are:

                  [Pipe Size]
                  [Pipe Size] UP
                  [Pipe Size] DN
                  [Pipe Size] UP & DN
                  EX. [Pipe Size]
                  EX. [Pipe Size] UP
                  EX. [Pipe Size] DN
                  EX. [Pipe Size] UP & DN
                  RX. [Pipe Size]
                  RX. [Pipe Size] UP
                  RX. [Pipe Size] DN
                  RX. [Pipe Size] UP & DN


                  This way, for new work, existing, and demo, I have a tag for the Pipe Size only, "Up", "Down", and "Up and Down" (i.e. a riser crossing the floor and ceiling.) The nice thing is that it's a single family to load and manage, the not-so-nice thing is that I have to manually select the correct Type every time I place a tag. But as OP said, one floor's "up" is another floor's "down", so there really isn't a smarter solution to this that I could find.

                  This is one of the many things on the plumbing/piping side that Autodesk has simply left undone, IMO. The HVAC and Electrical sides are fairly well developed, but it seems that we're always scrambling to cobble together solutions for plumbing and piping. Autodesk hasn't made a single plumbing improvement since I started using Revit back in 2010.
                  I pretty much did the same thing and just made family with different types which display the different labels. It´s actually quite okay to use. It is true that it´s more or less impossible to define whether the pipe would be going up, down or up/down for a certain floor. So that actually works right now.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by josephpeel View Post
                    I made a dynamo script that finds all pipes/ducts/etc that are vertical (checks if the endpoint coordinates are above eachother) and then turns on a 'Is Vertical' parameter. Then it is possible to filter by 'Is Vertical = True and Length>1m' and use Tag All to add a rise/drop symbol. (Here the standard is arrows pointing up or down).
                    Its still neccesary to go round and check if the symbol is up or down.. but it saves some time and I mostly use it for waste water calculations that need to know if the pipe is vertical.

                    It would be possible to add a check that determines if the vertical pipes go through the upper and lower levels of the current view, or both, and then place the correct tag or set the parameters.
                    Using parameters in a pipe for Up/Down/Both might be a problem because then you would need to split your pipes at each level for it to be correct in all views.
                    I tried to run this script but I got an error in the Element.Location node saying "Custom node definition is not loaded" and also in node Vector.AltitudeAndAzimuth had the same error. I´d really like to get this script working because that parameter identifying Vertical pipes would be quite nifty to have as I usually set a different line weight for my drop/risers on the floor plans.

                    Comment

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