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Legends - filtering for objects present on sheet, view or project?

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    #1

    Legends - filtering for objects present on sheet, view or project?

    Legend application seems to follow either of two distinct approaches:
    - a standard legend can be attatched to all sets of drawings that leave the office;
    - each single drawing should contain a legend of the elements on that drawing, and not any that are not on that drawing.

    Application of the former is fairly straightforward, it could even exist as an independent document. Downsides are obviously inflexibility and extents.

    So, assuming method two is a given demand, how do you go about automating this as much as possible? There is a 'select all visible in view' function, but I have more faith in a negative filter (or not enough in my diligince to find every object type in the view, every time), to make sure I can select all the objects needing representation in the legend. Adding a parameter per object would not work with multiple views in wich such an object could appear.

    I am inclined to compromise: filter for presence in the project for those items that are not typically in every view, or view type, make a standard legend for every view type, and combine those on every sheet. Leaves me with one challenge: if I include standard objects in the project template, and prefabricate a legend view, I can't purge the objects i'm not using because i'm using them in the legend view.

    Right now i'm thinking to include standard object types in a specific place in the project, assign a 'do not count' element parameter, turned invisible with a filter for every view in the template, except for a 'mockup' legend view that is actually just another project view. Then a schedule that filters for object types present only once, so that I can select those and hide them in the legend.

    But i'm sure I'm not the first nor the last to tackle this. Anyone care to save me some headaches and give me some pointers?
    There must be a better way...

    Ekko Nap
    Professional nitpicker, architect, revit consultant, etc.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Originally posted by ekko
    each single drawing should contain a legend of the elements on that drawing, and not any that are not on that drawing.
    Did you mean to type "project" instead of "drawing" in that sentence? I would understand if it were at least "project", but if it is "drawing" the idea sounds very complicated to do. Even if you could do it, the ratio of "time invested vs. benefit" does not seem good. In the old days, if an item that was shown in a legend was not used in the project, there would be a note on that row in the legend, saying something such as "(not used)". What is wrong with that?
    Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin

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      #3
      LOL, it gets complicated sometimes, doesn't it. No, I did mean 'drawing' since that is what my emloyer intends to deliver. My first answer was identical to yours, and I am well aware of the benefits of a standard legend document. Turns out some clients just do not seem to appreciate the elegance of a standard legend booklet with their drawings for a new power socket in the upper left corner of their kitchen cabinet :-). Oh well, out with efficiency, in with customer service. (As for the old days, typing a text note seems like even more work then somehow applying a filter and hiding what is not relevant.)

      But it is precisely these "time invested vs. benefit" activitities that I'm attemting to automate and standardize, since they are the ones that end up killing my budget after I finish the model right on schedule.

      So, as I wrote above, a workable compromise seems to split the legend list up into categories that always appear on certain types of drawings (elevations, site plans, evacuation maps, ect.) and handle the rest on a project scale, as you said. You might end up with a few redundant symbols on every sheet, but as a whole it's still readable for a layman. The professional should ask me for a takeoff schedule and curse his days, weeks, months spent counting stuff off of drawings.

      So, any thoughts?
      There must be a better way...

      Ekko Nap
      Professional nitpicker, architect, revit consultant, etc.

      Comment

        #4
        Well, I do it as described: I simply create plan views for all disciplines (fire safety, electronics, and so on) and I divided my legends into the same categories. Works like a charm...
        Martijn de Riet
        Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
        MdR Advies
        Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

        Comment

          #5
          MDR, that works just fine for simple plans, but not when you are dealing with hospitals, labs, airports; you still need to filter elements in the legend for what is present in the view on the sheet or there will be no room on that sheet for anything but the legend.
          There must be a better way...

          Ekko Nap
          Professional nitpicker, architect, revit consultant, etc.

          Comment

            #6
            Yes, but legends have very limited features. You can filter a keynote schedule by sheet, or you can filter a schedule by different means, but a legend doesn't have any of those tools. How can you achieve anything similar with legends?
            Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin

            Comment

              #7
              Well, I don't know. How many different power outlets can one have? I've done some pretty big medical centres reaching up to almost 10.000m2. But still no more then 20 or so possible configurations. Same with Fire Safety. Or plumbing. And frankly I cannot see it happen that adding rooms means adding different kinds of stuff. A double 220V power outlet remains just that, whether you put it 100 or a 1000 times in your project.

              Maybe you need to rethink the Legend setup? What on earth do you guys put in there?
              Martijn de Riet
              Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
              MdR Advies
              Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

              Comment

                #8
                Trust me, all points above have been made. I make them again every chance I get. But if I don't come up with some sort of procedure, clumsy workaround or brilliant piece of programming at an affordable price (yes, I am solliciting) my clients workforce ends up with a lot of tedious checking of drawings and legends.

                Mdr, you may have a point, but I'm not even sure. I am an architect with too much time on my hands (or Iwas when this client first hired me) and the client is a large engineering firm. I have no idea how crazy their installation schematics get. All I have seen is the comprehensive list, and that is huge.
                There must be a better way...

                Ekko Nap
                Professional nitpicker, architect, revit consultant, etc.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Define "affordable"...
                  Martijn de Riet
                  Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
                  MdR Advies
                  Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Sometimes I think we spend too much time trying to pound the software into some desired output rather than work with what the software gives us. It kills production to work that way. Even in the Autocad days we didn't try to individualize legends on a per sheet basis. Too much to keep track of. I can see having a separate legend for electrical. A separate legend for equipment and so on. Trying to force a legend into just giving us only what shows up on a particular sheet is overkill and non-productive, if I am understanding this correctly.

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