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    Can't place fixture in linked model

    Hi all, so I've been having a lot of trouble with an architect's model, specifically the ceilings. As a background, this is a demo/reno project.

    Basically, everytime I try to put in some recessed fixtures into the new ceiling, Revit can't find a host. I had no problem placing the old fixture in the demo ceiling, but in the new one I can't get it to find the ceiling. I tried playing with my view range, my phasing...etc...but nothing.

    I'm not sure if anyone can help without the actual model, but here's as much info as I can give:

    My levels (from the linked model):


    I'm working on the first level, and my view range is set as:


    The ceiling I'm attempting to place fixtures on is 2590 away from 0m, or floor.

    For my view the phase filter is "Show Previous + New" and the phase is "Phase 1". (For project phasing I just have Existing and Phase 1 set up).

    Again, I'm not sure how much help I can be given without the actual model, but if anyone can give me any sort of hints or tips as to what to look for I'd appreciate it. This ceiling is frustrating me to no end :banghead:
    Attached Files

    #2
    DO you have a ceiling in your actual model (not the link)? Is the light fixture Face Based or Ceiling Hosted? If its Ceiling Hosted, you cant place it on a ceiling from a Linked Model. You need Face Based, or you need to put ceilings in your model.
    Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
    @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
      DO you have a ceiling in your actual model (not the link)? Is the light fixture Face Based or Ceiling Hosted? If its Ceiling Hosted, you cant place it on a ceiling from a Linked Model. You need Face Based, or you need to put ceilings in your model.
      Thanks for the reply. The ceiling is in the link only, I don't have anything in my actual model. The fixture is Face based.

      A couple of things, the linked model does have a new ceiling created in Phase 1, but another existing ceiling on top of it...maybe this confuses Revit? Another point is that my fixtures are willing to place on certain ceilings, just not this one...no matter what I do.

      I have a feeling this can't be figured out without the model, but I appreciate the tips.

      Comment


        #4
        Make sure your phases matches the linked file....

        Or

        Check to see if they are using the old "create a ceiling to host families but hide it on our sheet views and confuse the heck out of our consultants because we were too busy to create unhosted lighting" scenario by checking their model views vs yours. (Yes, I am guilty of this...but I told our MEP folk what was going on)
        Michael "MP" Patrick (Deceased - R.I.P)

        Comment


          #5
          Does the linked model have light fixture too? If so turn them off via the view's RVT Links. The light source from can/down lights in the linked model can block placing light fixtures in the host model.
          John Karben | IMEG Corp.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MPwuzhere View Post
            Make sure your phases matches the linked file....

            Or

            Check to see if they are using the old "create a ceiling to host families but hide it on our sheet views and confuse the heck out of our consultants because we were too busy to create unhosted lighting" scenario by checking their model views vs yours. (Yes, I am guilty of this...but I told our MEP folk what was going on)
            Thanks for the hints. First off, I do have the same phases...but maybe it's the second one?

            What I've discovered is that if I hide their (or the linked model's) lighting fixtures (we're just matching up our fixtures with their locations), I can place my fixtures in. However, when they're turned on, it doesn't let me anymore...any ideas? If it's the second option your suggesting, how would I check for that?

            Thanks again! I feel like I might be getting somewhere finally.

            Comment


              #7
              While my comment is not regarding your direct needs, I will offer some sound advice for future projects. To make life easier on you, transitioning away from hosted elements will be your top priority. Hosted elements work best, if at all (depending on the type of host requirement), when the object you're hosting to actually exists in your model, rather than Linked in.

              Using non-hosted Families gives you the ability to simply place an object and set the height from the Properties palette. You can always have a non-hosted duplicate of a hosted Family by simply nesting it into a new Family created from a non-hosted template, reapplying connectors and associating some parameters as needed. This gives you options, at least, in regards to issues with hosted elements.

              I am in the process now of transitioning virtually 100% of my library to non-hosted Families. I feel like I should have done this years ago after looking back at the struggles hosted families can cause, gaining no substantial value in the end. The only time it really "worked" was on one particular job at a company I worked for a few years ago where the architectural, structural and MEP designers from each inner-office departments all came together in a meeting and agreed to have a single federated model where literally all disciplines worked in the same model. To this day I have yet to have such success in designing and coordinating a building - both in Revit behaving in the way you expect, and coordination among team members.

              Since most jobs are Linked-based modeling, going non-hosted elements is the way to go in the end. Hope this helps for future endeavors.

              -TZ
              Tannar Z. Frampton ™
              Frampton & Associates, Inc.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by tzframpton View Post
                While my comment is not regarding your direct needs, I will offer some sound advice for future projects. To make life easier on you, transitioning away from hosted elements will be your top priority. Hosted elements work best, if at all (depending on the type of host requirement), when the object you're hosting to actually exists in your model, rather than Linked in.

                Using non-hosted Families gives you the ability to simply place an object and set the height from the Properties palette. You can always have a non-hosted duplicate of a hosted Family by simply nesting it into a new Family created from a non-hosted template, reapplying connectors and associating some parameters as needed. This gives you options, at least, in regards to issues with hosted elements.

                I am in the process now of transitioning virtually 100% of my library to non-hosted Families. I feel like I should have done this years ago after looking back at the struggles hosted families can cause, gaining no substantial value in the end. The only time it really "worked" was on one particular job at a company I worked for a few years ago where the architectural, structural and MEP designers from each inner-office departments all came together in a meeting and agreed to have a single federated model where literally all disciplines worked in the same model. To this day I have yet to have such success in designing and coordinating a building - both in Revit behaving in the way you expect, and coordination among team members.

                Since most jobs are Linked-based modeling, going non-hosted elements is the way to go in the end. Hope this helps for future endeavors.

                -TZ
                Thanks for the insight. I actually have not considered something like that, as we always felt that hosting families was a powerful option within Revit and coordinating drawings. But based on my experience, and what you explain...this does seem like a foregone conclusion.

                However, I haven't worked much with unhosted families, is there a resource you can provide so I can get more info? Just things such as how devices/fixtures would be placed/recessed and all that.

                Thanks again for the feedback.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mkisno4 View Post
                  However, I haven't worked much with unhosted families, is there a resource you can provide so I can get more info? Just things such as how devices/fixtures would be placed/recessed and all that.
                  There's no resource that's needed on how it functions. It's literally as simple as you initiate a Family, position it manually, and you apply an elevation manually. It is not dependent on any plane, element, face or family, other than the Workplane (ie the Level).

                  Originally posted by mkisno4 View Post
                  ....we always felt that hosting families was a powerful option within Revit and coordinating drawings.
                  Oh trust me, it sounds so right and I am with you on the concept. But in practice, it's more hassle that it's worth. With non-hosted Families, it's going to work every single time - period. Sure, you lose the auto-move / auto-update efficiency, such as a wall mounted Plumbing Fixture that's Face Based moving automatically if the architect updates the wall. But that's only if the same wall gets moved. What if the architect deletes the wall and starts over? Even though the wall "moved" six inches, to Revit it's a new wall, severing the Face Based Family, thus killing the entire concept and benefit.

                  So many of these little "gotchas" to name. No more hosted Families for me, unless it makes sense.
                  Tannar Z. Frampton ™
                  Frampton & Associates, Inc.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It is important to distinguish between host-based and face-based families.

                    "Wall-based, ceiling-based, floor-based, and roof-based templates are known as host-based families. A host-based family can be placed in a project only if an element of its host type is present (wall, ceiling, floor, or roof)." If the host element is deleted the family will be deleted as well. I would not recommend host-based families.

                    Face-based families on the other hand can "host" to any surface (or workplane) and will orientate to the direction of the surface. They will move with the host and will stay in place if the surface is deleted or changed. On very rare occasion face-based element will move to unexpected locations with changes to the host. Their one downfall. I don't see this happening very much anymore.

                    Non-hosted elements can be placed anywhere and require manual moves, alignment, and orientation giving you total control.

                    Face-based families are viable and have the advantage over non-hosted with auto-orientation and moving with the host, which will reduce work load when placing and with the multiple changes to the floor plan.
                    John Karben | IMEG Corp.

                    Comment

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