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    #1

    Rebar Detailing

    So I was hoping for some input and thoughts on an issue I am running in to.

    Our structures are typically modeled so that beams and floors are joined. I have one person working on slab reinforcement and one on beam reinforcement. Right now the top bars of the beam have to be hosted in the slab, which makes it editible by that person causing a clash between the person working on beams and the person working on the slab.

    I have thought of two somewhat ok ways that I don't really like to avoid this...
    1. Model the beams to the top of slab, and model the slabs to end at the edge of the beams.
    2. Model the beams to the top of slab, and model the slab through the beam but do not join them

    I don't really like either, so hope someone has a great idea to help us out with this.
    Tags: None
    #2
    The issue is that the slab cuts the beam, so their is no overlapping geometry.
    - You could place the rebar at the correct location and then rehost the bars to the beams.
    - You could place the bars in the beam and move them to into position them in the slab.
    - You could use the sketch tool which requires the selection of the host.
    Each of these may provide the warning that the bars are placed outside the host. Another option is to use the reinforcement extensions which you can get if your on subscription.

    Yet another option is to try creating your own API app. The SDK has some pretty good examples.

    Hope this helps.

    Erik
    Erik Snell, P.E.
    Factory Worker (Principal User Experience Designer)
    I am an Autodesk employee and the opinions or commentary I provide are my own and not necessarily that of Autodesk, Inc.

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by TheViking View Post
      The issue is that the slab cuts the beam, so their is no overlapping geometry.
      - You could place the rebar at the correct location and then rehost the bars to the beams.
      - You could place the bars in the beam and move them to into position them in the slab.
      - You could use the sketch tool which requires the selection of the host.
      Each of these may provide the warning that the bars are placed outside the host. Another option is to use the reinforcement extensions which you can get if your on subscription.

      Yet another option is to try creating your own API app. The SDK has some pretty good examples.

      Hope this helps.

      Erik
      Thank you for the post. We have a few people at the office that hate warnings and belive they lead to corrupted files and you are right that those methods would produce warnings for the bars being outside host.

      The issue I have with the sketch mode is because you really have to know what your doing to do it correctly or you will end up having incorrect segment lables. So on a L shaped bar sketching can sometimes have the leg lables switched. We have someone at our office that does this all the time and nearly all of her bars are sketched in the wrong order

      I really have been wanting to look into APIs I think that would help us tremendously doing Rebar shops!! Thanks for the reference to SDK I had not looked there yet.

      Comment

        #4
        So what is the "right" direction for an "L" shaped bar? Why would it matter?
        Erik Snell, P.E.
        Factory Worker (Principal User Experience Designer)
        I am an Autodesk employee and the opinions or commentary I provide are my own and not necessarily that of Autodesk, Inc.

        Comment

          #5
          I think the element borrowing is just too sensitive in some areas. I have our system setup to model beams as separate elements with slabs stopping at edges throughout. This gives a better model IMO and ensures the slab panels are broken into realistic areas, and it makes editing slab thicknesses at a late stage very quick instead of tedious when users model very large slab panels. Having them separate also allows me to hatch beams were required with filters

          Obviously they need to be joined though to allow for hidden lines to display. Which means the entire floor up until a construction joint will be edited with one change

          Should adding reinforcement really take ownership of the host element? We are not editing the host.

          Unjoing elements shouldnt really be considered, due to the fact that it will change General Arrangement plans already issued


          No answer I guess, just more questions!
          Revit BLOGGAGE

          http://www.revic.org.au

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by TheViking View Post
            So what is the "right" direction for an "L" shaped bar? Why would it matter?
            Typically, if not always the short leg should be B and the long leg is C.

            There are a few reasons that is matters. The first is just consistancy and that is not a very large concern.

            The largest reason that I have found is this:
            EXAMPLE: If you are working on a slab and at the edge you have L bars with the long leg horizontal and you have the B and C switched. You decide you no longer need them to be L's but regular straight bars so you switch from a 17A (L) to a 00 (Straight) then your bars are now vertical bars no horizontal as they should be. So you would need to either delete and make new or go into a section and rotate the bars to be horizontal rather than just going directly from an L to a Straight and moving on.

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Ben-May View Post
              I think the element borrowing is just too sensitive in some areas. I have our system setup to model beams as separate elements with slabs stopping at edges throughout. This gives a better model IMO and ensures the slab panels are broken into realistic areas, and it makes editing slab thicknesses at a late stage very quick instead of tedious when users model very large slab panels. Having them separate also allows me to hatch beams were required with filters

              Obviously they need to be joined though to allow for hidden lines to display. Which means the entire floor up until a construction joint will be edited with one change

              Should adding reinforcement really take ownership of the host element? We are not editing the host.

              Unjoing elements shouldn't really be considered, due to the fact that it will change General Arrangement plans already issued


              No answer I guess, just more questions!
              I have tried to think of other situations from and Architectural Revit side, but I can not think of many. There are very few items that are hosted IN an other element. I would be some what OK with the hosting issues if the bars could actually read information from the host other than cover, things like concrete strength, level, etc. I like your idea of holding the slabs back...that was a solution I have proposed, but many do not like because how it would effect live sections and such since it would not look quite right. The other issue with this is if you have slab bars that need to be spliced over support they now have to be hosted in the beam so you just switch who is giving who issues.

              Right now, there is a point on the bar that is the host point, and no other part of the bar matters. It would be extremely nice if it would be able to recognize a host along any point so you could host it to any element that it is inside of.

              Comment

                #8
                One more issue is that you cant draw rebars from one end to another in a frame, if the beams are built independently. When using manual detailing, we would draw a beam on an axis and place rebar on multiple spans. That cant be done in Revit, because that would mean extending reinforcing on multiple hosts, and I dont know if thats acceptable.
                The only workaround would be to create a sheet with a section and export it to ASD.
                Revit Architecture 2013 Certified Professional

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by lucis29 View Post
                  One more issue is that you cant draw rebars from one end to another in a frame, if the beams are built independently. When using manual detailing, we would draw a beam on an axis and place rebar on multiple spans. That cant be done in Revit, because that would mean extending reinforcing on multiple hosts, and I dont know if thats acceptable.
                  The only workaround would be to create a sheet with a section and export it to ASD.
                  Could you elabtorate a little futher? I am not quite catching what you are running into.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    More detailed:

                    I have a building with 3 axes on X direction (A,B and C) and 3 axes on Y direction (1,2 and 3). Columns are placed at every intersection. I draw beams from column to column. So I have a beam on axis 1 between A and B, another one between B and C.
                    When we are making the reinforcement, we consider "a beam" between A and C and reinforcing it accordingly. The lower bars stop on the column, but the upper bars pass over the support (column) and overlap in the middle of the distance between A - B and B - C.
                    I was saying that Revit doesn't allow me to pass with the upper reinforcement from a beam to another, because they are considered different hosts.
                    If I'm still unclear, tell me and I'll post a drawing tomorrow morning.

                    Regards
                    Revit Architecture 2013 Certified Professional

                    Comment

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