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Doors in Curtain walls - Door size battle

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    Doors in Curtain walls - Door size battle

    hi everyone, For the longest time I have been fighting with the fact that doors-as-curtain walls stretch and shrink in accordance with the module in which the user places the door within the curtain wall. I have done the grouping workaround in the past to keep co-workers from destroying a proper curtain wall but still I am unable to find a way to keep schedules from being modified if I a mullion moves ever so slightly.

    So far - my latest workaround is to nest a door panel in to a Curtain wall panel family (as-door) as shown below.

    1- This images shows a 3' door (curtain wall panel as door) between two mullions at 3'-2 1/2"
    The door is a nested door panel that measures 3'-0"



    2- However as you know, the moment I move either of the side mullions, there is now a gap on either side of my nested door family (that is okay), but the panel will schedule as having a width of 6'-1 1/2". While my door look correct and is of the correct size, it shows* wrong in my schedule, and there is no way to link the width from the door to the with of the panel.
    I end up with a schedule showing a 6' -1 1/2" door in this example, but I at least have the correct door family in place. This allows me to throw ANY door type into a curtain wall.



    I understand this is normal revit behavior and I wish Autodesk would do something about this, but in the meantime I am looking for any other out of the box ways to deal with this.

    The only think I am gaining at the moment is the ability to reuse door panels in curtain walls and have the correct door graphic. But as far a scheduling nothing has improved.
    Last edited by Profoxcg; June 29, 2019, 05:25 PM. Reason: typos

    #2
    You need to manually add a mullion (one segment) to make this correct again.
    The thing you could do is, add a large red box to your door family..then get a reporting parameter to the grid lines. Then make a yes/no parameter to the red box.
    The formula for the yes/no parameter would be; reporting_parameter>door_width+30 this way you could see where a problem exists, because the box pops-up
    oplossingen zijn altijd simpel
    solutions are always simple

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Arno View Post
      You need to manually add a mullion (one segment) to make this correct again.
      The thing you could do is, add a large red box to your door family..then get a reporting parameter to the grid lines. Then make a yes/no parameter to the red box.
      The formula for the yes/no parameter would be; reporting_parameter>door_width+30 this way you could see where a problem exists, because the box pops-up

      I can manually add a mullion or move the mullion back - I know, but the real problem is the fact that revit is reading the panel size and populating the door schedule. Ideally I would like for Autodesk to "fix" that behavior and read the nested door regardless of how wide the mullion separation is. So in theory yes you would have a floating door but it would be the correct size. This is where your idea would come in...

      By the way that's a good idea for visual QC at least. Kudos !

      Can look at elevations and quickly see what broke ect. I like it !
      What is the +30 in your formula do?

      Can't I just say: reporting_parameter>door_width (door_width being the type parameter of my nested door panel)
      because I want the red box to appear the slightest discrepancy because those show up on door schedules.

      Comment


        #4
        Have you investigated modelling your doors as shared separate families, unhosted or driven by any template, loaded into a CWP template "parent" family (that need not itself be a "CWP door" - then you have the option of loading set child family into a wall-based template family - and you'll have the same door, twice, in different applications.

        How you then handle the "infill" (and cut) behaviour of the parent families is entirely up to you.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Profoxcg View Post
          hi everyone, For the longest time I have been fighting with the fact that doors-as-curtain walls stretch and shrink in accordance with the module in which the user places the door within the curtain wall. I have done the grouping workaround in the past to keep co-workers from destroying a proper curtain wall but still I am unable to find a way to keep schedules from being modified if I a mullion moves ever so slightly.

          So far - my latest workaround is to nest a door panel in to a Curtain wall panel family (as-door) as shown below.

          1- This images shows a 3' door (curtain wall panel as door) between two mullions at 3'-2 1/2"
          The door is a nested door panel that measures 3'-0"

          2- However as you know, the moment I move either of the side mullions, there is now a gap on either side of my nested door family (that is okay), but the panel will schedule as having a width of 6'-1 1/2". While my door look correct and is of the correct size, it should wrong in my schedule, and there is not way to link the width from the door to the with of the panel.
          Originally posted by snowyweston View Post
          Have you investigated modelling your doors as shared separate families, unhosted or driven by any template, loaded into a CWP template "parent" family (that need not itself be a "CWP door" - then you have the option of loading set child family into a wall-based template family - and you'll have the same door, twice, in different applications.
          Aaron graciously shared his doors - take a look at the CW doors and how they are made. http://www.revitforum.org/architectu...-v4-r2015.html
          Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO


          chad
          BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Profoxcg View Post
            I wish Autodesk would do something about this
            as one who builds curtain walls and cw doors all day everyday (it's all I do) I wish that you wouldn't ask AD to fix something that is not broken. A scheduled door opening width in Revit is the distance between the door jambs and Revit is reporting the width of the curtain panel between those two door jambs. If you move a door jamb you change the DO width, as it should be. If you have curtain wall door jambs built from correctly made profiles then the curtain panel, that's becomes the curtain wall door, will report/schedule the correct width. If you don't want the door jamb mullions to move, pin the grids. To ask AD to fix a user error is IMO not a good thing.
            I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

            Comment


              #7
              I agree with Dave there, BUT you can get the best of both worlds:

              In my doors, the CP is force-stretched, the way you describe. BUT it doesnt reflect that change in the door schedule, nor in the modeled panel. The physical panel stays the size the user has manually entered. THEN, the CP also reports that its size is wrong, in the properties pallete. It tells the user how far *wrong* it is, and that they need to correct the Curtain Grid Spacing.

              Pretty straightforward to set up.
              Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
              @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
                THEN, the CP also reports that its size is wrong, in the properties pallete. It tells the user how far *wrong* it is, and that they need to correct the Curtain Grid Spacing.
                As an add to this I have the same thing with the addition of the spacing error halved so you know how far to move mullions in either direction if you're trying to maintain a position.

                Stupid simple but a lot easier than dividing odd fractions in your head!
                Greg McDowell Jr
                about.me/GMcDowellJr

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dave Jones View Post
                  as one who builds curtain walls and cw doors all day everyday (it's all I do) I wish that you wouldn't ask AD to fix something that is not broken. A scheduled door opening width in Revit is the distance between the door jambs and Revit is reporting the width of the curtain panel between those two door jambs. If you move a door jamb you change the DO width, as it should be. If you have curtain wall door jambs built from correctly made profiles then the curtain panel, that's becomes the curtain wall door, will report/schedule the correct width. If you don't want the door jamb mullions to move, pin the grids. To ask AD to fix a user error is IMO not a good thing.
                  Its not user error. You are just used to the inefficiency or shortcomings of the software. Pinning the grids is not the solution - most def not ! for many reasons.
                  I wish that you would be a bit more open minded about different workflows out there. I am sorry that all you do is Curtain walls. That sounds just as bad as those interns who are made to do bathroom partitions all day every day... ekk.

                  PS: Tell me what happens when you pin a gird line... (exactly).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
                    I agree with Dave there, BUT you can get the best of both worlds:

                    In my doors, the CP is force-stretched, the way you describe. BUT it doesnt reflect that change in the door schedule, nor in the modeled panel. The physical panel stays the size the user has manually entered. THEN, the CP also reports that its size is wrong, in the properties pallete. It tells the user how far *wrong* it is, and that they need to correct the Curtain Grid Spacing.

                    Pretty straightforward to set up.
                    I will have to look at that. So sound like the most reasonable solutions.
                    guys you gotta remember not everyone on the team is a revit guru or knows how to properly model etc. I am trying to keep it simple for my team and at the same time be able to catch mistakes.

                    I stand my ground when I say that ADK needs to look at how door in a CW behave.

                    Comment

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