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Custom Ramp Rail (Concrete Parapet & Beam)

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    #1

    Custom Ramp Rail (Concrete Parapet & Beam)

    I found this interesting question in another forum (Autodesk), and I thought it would be interesting to bring it here.
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    "I am creating a Revit model of a multistory carpark and I am trying to get my head around the Ramps at the moment. There are a number of complex issues that I need to resolve, but initially I seem to be only able to get a pedestrian looking ramp with a handrail. What I want to do is to replace the handrail with a concrete parapet wall and possibly an integral downstand beam like this: (see section).

    I have tried creating this as a family using the "Metric Profile" and the "Metric Profile-Rail" templates and I have managed to create a family member, but I am not sure it this works, because I cannot select them in the ramp tool as they appear in the Rail options for the ramp.

    I am wondering if I am totally on the wrong track. My Ramp is made up of a radius top and bottom section with a straight in between thus: (see plan)

    I do need to consider variations in the gradient at top and bottom for transition ramps, but I will be happy just to get this bit working to start with.

    The point here is that I need the parapet/beam profile to follow the ramp boundary lines in the same way that a railing/ballustrade does. (see perspective).

    Can anyone put me on the right path please...? I think the salient questions are:-

    What is the right Family Template to start with?
    Can I make a non-rail family type become a rail family type so that it can be associated with the Ramp?
    Should I be approaching this totally differently?
    Thanks in advance and Merry Christmas

    Cheers

    Ian "
    Attached Files
    Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin
    Tags: None
    #2
    Would it work to just do an in-place sweep using the cross-section of the precast panel as the profile? You could even do it as a series of sweeps to get the jointing to show up right. After all, isn't that how they'll actually make the panels?

    Arcturis
    BIM Manager
    Associate Architect

    Comment

      #3
      I tried this, seems to work fine for me. Using the attached file it can be done.
      Take the following steps:

      1. Open the Family File and rename all parameters (used Dutch namings so I can use this family myself... )
      2. Load it into your project.
      3. Create the Ramp with the Default railing
      4. Select the created Railing and Edit
      5. Duplicate and Rename.
      6. From the Type Properties of the Railing select the correct Profile (and I believe this is where it went wrong, you couldn't find the correct Railing Profile when creating the Railing)
      7. Configure the Railing Settings. Height of the Railing corresponding to the Height Parameter in the Railing Profile Family.

      A few remarks:
      - When using custom railing profiles you have to do so in two steps: first load the railing profile family in your project, then assign it to a railing family. This is where it usually goes wrong, people want to do this in one step. That's impossible.
      - If you want to change the parameters of this Profile, simply look it up in the Project Browser under Families > Profiles. Expand it so you see the different types (only 1 now), rightclick the type and choose Type Properties. Now you can Duplicate the type and assign new values to the parameters.
      Attached Files
      Martijn de Riet
      Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
      MdR Advies
      Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by mdradvies View Post
        I tried this, seems to work fine for me. ...
        Excellent solution! I am impressed. Before reading your post, I thought that the solution was a series of Swept Blend solids. I had discarded using a sweep, because a sweep does not keep the section correctly along the path, but this solution using a railing creates the object in one single piece and keeps the section in the correct shape along the path. The only issue I see is that it will be classified as a railing, not as structural element, but that might not matter.

        I had to modify a couple of dimensions in the family you posted, to make it match the profile of the original post. In case it is useful, I am posting the modified family here, with renamed parameters.
        Attached Files
        Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin

        Comment

          #5
          Thanks Alfredo,

          I thought about how to make it an Structural Element, using 3D sweeps, but came to the same conclusion: the sketch won't hold up. So I'm guessing this is the best solution (quickest anyway...). For this kind of situations I use the Description-parameter to filter my schedules for certain categories (Generic Model Families, Railings, etc. All those elements that can have different usage). In this parameter I add a code complient with our national rules and use this to check if every element is in the right schedule.
          Martijn de Riet
          Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
          MdR Advies
          Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

          Comment

            #6
            I think what Revit needs in this case is a sweep that can use two paths simultaneously. Rhino has this ("sweep along two rails", if I remember correctly), and it makes complex sweeps that curve in more than one direction much easier to accomplish without "tilting" or otherwise distorting the profile of the sweep.

            Alfredo/Martijn, glad you were able to get the railing option to work.

            Arcturis
            BIM Manager
            Associate Architect

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by rosskirby View Post
              I think what Revit needs in this case is a sweep that can use two paths simultaneously. Rhino has this ("sweep along two rails", if I remember correctly), and it makes complex sweeps that curve in more than one direction much easier to accomplish without "tilting" or otherwise distorting the profile of the sweep.

              Alfredo/Martijn, glad you were able to get the railing option to work.
              I wonder if you could combine multiple swept blends to accomplish curves in more than one direction? I don't have time to play with it right now but it would be an interesting exercise
              I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by Dave Jones View Post
                I wonder if you could combine multiple swept blends to accomplish curves in more than one direction? I don't have time to play with it right now but it would be an interesting exercise
                Sweeping with two paths is pretty similar in concept to a swept blend, so I don't know why they couldn't include it as a tool. But, like you said, I'm sure that in most cases you could get by with some combination of just the regular sweep and swept blend tools, and then join the two geometries together. I guess that's one more thing to add to the wishlist, if it's not already there.

                Arcturis
                BIM Manager
                Associate Architect

                Comment

                  #9
                  Thanks

                  Wow Thanks guys...

                  You've been busy over christmas

                  It is much appreciated, and now also I have another forum that I know about

                  I'm going to have a play with this

                  Just for my information, which Family Template did you start with and why...? It would be useful to know and understand more about these templates... I cant seem to find too much documentation on what functionality already comes with these templates. Some of the tutorials on the web give some of the answers, but only to a select few.

                  Cheers

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Do we need the extra tools in Revit for everything or do we need to think a bit out the box sometimes to fix our designs?

                    How about using the floor tool for the ramps and just using the floor slab edge tool with the above profile imported.
                    Walls can then be added and attached to base. (floor)
                    Thus keeping all elements in their structural categories.

                    Have not tried this myself. Just a thought.

                    "Built like you would in the real life"
                    MW

                    Comment

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