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Tackling a refurb for the first time...

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    Tackling a refurb for the first time...

    For near four years I've used Revit, but in all that time, whether at work or at play, I've never had cause to look at workflow of an involved refurbishment project.

    Sure, I have long used phases with demolition and used VG settings & filters to document them, but that's been with the removal of elements, or buildings, in their entirety. But with a job I'm looking at now, the grain has become somewhat finer than what I'm used to, and I just wanted to pick at your thoughts.

    I'll start things of with the first of my issues, and maybe add more later.

    #01 - Existing wall linings

    Now I'm not working in 2012, so any talk of parts & assemblies won't be of much use! Still, I've a typical victorian warehouse double skin brick wall, with the ubquitous cake of plaster, filler, board & paint that the client wants to strip away. Building the existing wall (type) with the lining as a finish layer means I can only demolish (in a Revit sense) the wall entire, brick, lining & all - and that will be reflected in my demolition plans. Am I just being fussy here, but I only want to demolish (in an architectural sense) the lining - so what are my options? It seems a bit of a nonsense to have to "rebuild" the existing brick structure in the following phase.


    Is it going to be a case of modelling two walls, one the brick shell and the second the lining?

    Would I benefit at all from dropping basic walls and model the shell differently? Perhaps in-place? Or as a mass object so I can use face-applied walls? What issues do these methods raise?

    Would all my families have to become face-attached (if I went the mass route) or would it best I stick with standard doors and use cut geometry for the non-hosting wall?


    PS :
    I imagine this is going to apply to all system families, the floors (concrete-insultation-plywood-timber/tile) especially.
    So any pointers on how to approach those would also be appreciated.
    Last edited by snowyweston; June 22, 2011, 06:47 PM.

    #2
    I had a similar project a while back and I created two separate walls, the portion of wall that remained and the portion that was demolished and replaced. I'm not sure why you would go to using a mass...you lost me on that part.

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      #3
      Could you just build a facebased (or wallbased) family, with nothing but a parametric void cutting the host - Give it instance parameters for length, height and depth - And place it on the walls in the "new" phase?

      This should allow you to cut out the lining from the existing wall, and show it as demolished.

      Have done something similar to cut openings in an existing wall, but never tried cutting out "layers" like this... but don´t see why it wouldn´t work :beer:
      Klaus Munkholm
      "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

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        #4
        Creating two separate walls (or more) works fine if you know exactly what you’re going to demolish at the beginning of the project, before you even start drawing. Often, this is not the case. Klaus’ method allows quite easily to demo part(s) of the wall at the later stage in the project if needed.
        Last edited by PijPiwo; June 23, 2011, 12:46 AM.

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          #5
          I've done a number of renovation projects where we're stripping the finished surface off down to the structural portion of the wall (be it studs, brick, clay tile, stone, unknown, etc.). I've had no problems at all with using the two-wall method. Just keep in mind that you'll want to Join the two walls together so that any doors, windows, etc. cut both walls.

          While Klaus' method would probably work for "demolishing" portions of the lining, but if you're going to strip it off in its entirety, then two walls is the way to go. But that's just my opinion. Give both methods a try, and use whichever is most efficient for your project. Or maybe use both.

          Arcturis
          BIM Manager
          Associate Architect

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            #6
            Originally posted by rosskirby View Post
            "demolishing" portions of the lining, but if you're going to strip it off in its entirety, then two walls is the way to go.
            I should clarify myself, ...to demo part(s) I meant layers or linings (studs, furring, brick veneer, etc) in its entirety (or partially for that matter as well), but not limited to a part of the wall as an opening only, for example. Actually void family could be used for both these conditions with very good results.

            ...and as Ross mentioned, both methods (void and two-wall) might be the way to go depending on one's needs and project requirements.

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              #7
              I vote for the "2 wall method" and as Ross mentioned be sure to Join Geometry for openings, etc.

              Make sure to set up View Templates with Phases set correctly and apply to all views and strictly enforce their use with all team members,
              or things will get messy very quickly.
              Cliff B. Collins
              Registered Architect
              The Lamar Johnson Collaborative Architects, St. Louis, MO
              Autodesk Expert Elite

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                #8
                definately the 2 walls... I'm thinking that you will be doing a lot of complete walls. So the workflow "right click > select all instances > Set Demolished Phase is much faster then placing all kinds of voids (which need to be constrained, etc).
                Martijn de Riet
                Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
                MdR Advies
                Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

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                  #9
                  I work exclusively with refurb and 2 wall is the way to go IMHO - esp as in the UK I can normally work out that the brick wall underneath is a consistent thickness, but the finishes are not! (and they tend to be different in different rooms.) Takes a bit longer to get the initial set up drawings done, but worth it in the end at CD

                  The other thing to get used to in refurb is walls that are not straight and/or perpendicular!

                  At the beginning revit feels like a real pain in refurb, but comes into its own later in the project.
                  Last edited by jameshs; June 24, 2011, 06:25 AM. Reason: sp

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                    #10
                    I work nearly all the time on existing buildings and I also tend to use 2 walls a lot.

                    It's obvious for thick layers like drylining but occasionally you have the same existing wall, say plaster finished below a roof junction and continuing unfinished above and so it's also useful in those situations.

                    Although joining geometry is very neat it doesn't return the finish layer into the reveals and so I have to use Cut Profile to tidy that up or paint the reveals with the correct finish for renders.
                    William Sutherland rias riba
                    WS Architecture Ltd

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