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[All Verticals] - Camera Views - CCTV design

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    [All Verticals] - Camera Views - CCTV design

    Applies to: - All Verticals

    New Feature / Problem:
    I design CCTV systems in AutoCAD and since my clients - Architects and MEP Constractors are migrating from AutoCAD to Revit, it is sensible for me to move over to Revit as well.........but.....

    The Camera Function in Revit is pretty well useless as a design tool, being purely for set piece stills and movies.

    Why do you need this Feature / Why is it a Problem:
    It would be nice to have a feature allowing the placement of CCTV cameras (including realistic 3D models showing mass, shape colour) in situ, with the ability to generate views constrained to the performance envelope of realife cameras - i.e. 4:3 aspect ratio, defined footprint width, angular field of view size.

    I can do all of these things in AutoCAD using Dynamic Blocks, that i have developed myself - but the ability to refine the Camera function in Revit is very limited. I can model and place cameras as realistic components but cannot confirm the performance criteria validating that location.

    CCTV camera type and location are items that always generate major problems with Architects on ground of appearance, intrusiveness etc and with MEP in terms of clashes of services etc. - yet appear not to be dealt with by Revit at all....

    Workflow:
    Using dynamic blocks in AutoCAD, I can place and set up a camera to real world performance criteria within seconds.

    Benefits:
    The dynamic blocks field of view dimensions - distance (to target) and angle(field of view) allow the camera lenses to be determined.

    If the Camera in Revit had the same set up parameters, it would be possible to validate a design and demonstrate it with 3D views to clients and design teams

    Attachment comments:
    Screengrab from AutoCAD showing dynamic blocks - two plan view and one elevation - for calculating point of ground contact of field of view.
    Attached Files
    Sam Samuels CPP AVSEC-PM LEED-AP
    www.ravelin-security.com

    #2
    Sounds like a fun API addin. >_>

    The only thing I'm not sure you would be able to simulate is the "defined footprint width." You can adjust Field of View pretty easily, but I'm not sure you can specify the angle, will have to look at the API grid to see if that's an assignable parameter.
    .Carl - Architect, BIM Manager, Father, Husband, Coach, Player, Disc Tosser, Driver... not necessarily in that order.

    Free Revit Chat | Cre8iveThings Blog | Live Architecture! | Past Live Architecture!

    Comment


      #3
      Unfortunately the blocks I rely upon in AutoCAD use the 'Stretch' command extensively, and the same process doesn't seem to be available within REVIT, so I suspect it will be a forlorn hope.

      The only workaround that I can conceive is to make up 'frames' of the correct dimensions and then place them into the model and use these as targets for the camera view and then drag the camera limits to correspond to the frame.
      Sam Samuels CPP AVSEC-PM LEED-AP
      www.ravelin-security.com

      Comment


        #4
        Not quite sure I understand the problem. But if you could create it as a block in AutoCAD with a stretch command, you can most certainly also create it as a parametric family in Revit!

        The "trick" would be to use ref. planes/lines with labeled dimensions (instance parameters) applied to them, to enable the grips to pull and drag within the project.
        Klaus Munkholm
        "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

        Comment


          #5
          I'll have to perservere - I have had 13 years using AutoCAD and 13 Days using REVIT - so lots still to learn
          Sam Samuels CPP AVSEC-PM LEED-AP
          www.ravelin-security.com

          Comment


            #6
            I have played with the reference lines and they approach, but do not achieve the desired functionality.

            I need to define a postion for the camera, define a field of view width at target (Sample Standard widths 1.78m, 4.26m, 21.3m) and be able to rotate and stretch whilst displaying an angular dimension.

            I have achieved a semblance of the functionality by drawing a Model Line of the desired length(for the FOV width) and placing a reference line at 90 degrees to the model line, the far end repesenting the camera. I can then group them and rotate and stretch as necessary. However I then need to draw another two lines from the ends of the model line to the far end of the reference line to be able to get the angular dimension analogous to the field of view.

            I now place the REVIT Camera and align with the model line - however if I need to change anything, I have to delete the camera, delete the dimension and the extra two reference lines, before moving the group to a revised position.

            It would just be more elegant to place the REVIT Camera and in plan view adjust the lines which represent the field of view to the desired locations.
            Sam Samuels CPP AVSEC-PM LEED-AP
            www.ravelin-security.com

            Comment


              #7
              How about just placing a Full-frame digital SLR detail component, enter the Focal Length and have it calculate the Field Of View?

              I´m by far an expert on the physics of photography, so I´ve used the math found on Wikipedia :coffee:
              Attached Files
              Klaus Munkholm
              "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

              Comment


                #8
                You just inspired me to make something really useful out of this! Took it one step further, and created a 3D family based on the specified physics of my Canon EOS 1000D.

                This could become really handy for doing Camera Matching in Revit:
                1. Place the "Canon EOS 1000D.rfa" in the project.
                2. Enter "Camera Height" and "Target Height" in the properties dialog, to match your photo.
                3. Enter "Focal Length" in the properties dialog, to match your photo. (You can find this in the properties if the photo)
                4. Place a Revit Camera, and adjust manually to fit the "Canon EOS 1000D.rfa" FOV
                Attached Files
                Klaus Munkholm
                "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

                Comment


                  #9
                  Klaus,

                  This is certainly useful for setting up the performance of known cameras - but the driver in CCTV design is meeting the operational requirement for the target area, and then selecting a camera and lens combination to meet the performance envelope.

                  Security Cameras have (mainstream) chip sizes which are 1/2", 1/3", 1/4" and 1/5" (This ignores the rarely used 1", 2/3" & 1/6") - so I can select 4 different chip sizes, each of which wouild need a different lens for the same field of view. So for design purposes the width of image at the target is the driver.

                  Further as well as having to accommodate rotate and stretch in plan view, it is necessary to accommodate the horizontal tilt of the camera, since the camera may be mounted on a ceiling, on a pole or on a wall - all at varying heights.

                  For a REVIT Guru there is money to be made from developing a family that accommodate these variables and selling it commercially - it is beyond my ability - but possibly not beyond my wallet.....
                  Sam Samuels CPP AVSEC-PM LEED-AP
                  www.ravelin-security.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The 3D "Camera" I posted earlier already have the height and tilt parameters, and it should be pretty easy to reverse the formulas to calculate the chip size (Sensor Size) depending on the FOV, and not the other way around as it is now.
                    Klaus Munkholm
                    "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

                    Comment

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