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    Unintended Association

    This is more of a rant than helpful, but since I'm about to throw the computer out the window, figured I'd share...

    Probably my biggest source of frustration in all of Revit is unintended association... when two or more elements, which are not locked or constrained together, insist on pretending they are.

    E.g., I move a wall, and another wall, directly or indirectly "connected", moves with it. Click align to align a wall edge, zoom out, and I notice another wall has moved. There is no "lock" to "unlock".

    No amount of pinning or locking one element will allow the other element to move without breaking the pin or lock.

    There's three work-arounds that I know of:

    1. Cut & Paste: Cut one of the elements from the project, and then paste it right back where it was.

    Unfortunately, if the element is hosting other elements, you might get this message: "Can't Copy to Clipboard because of relationship between Elements"

    Or the work-around just doesn't work - you paste the element back in place and the associativity is still there.

    2. Another work-around is to pull the elements slightly apart (e.g. wall joins) so that they're not touching each other, then move the element, and then pull them back together again.

    In some cases, not a huge deal, but in other cases, such as a wall that's had a complicated edit profile done to it, it can turn into a lot of work. Sometimes there's a chain of association that has you pulling half your model apart.

    And again, in other cases, even pulling them apart doesn't break the associativity.

    3. Start deleting elements and model them again.

    If tip 1 and 2 don't work, no choice but to go to Tip 3.


    Anyone have other "tips" to add before it comes down to deleting stuff and remodeling?

    I don't know if this associativity is a "feature" or a "bug", but I will state emphatically that, in my experience, the productivity lost due to unintended association outweighs any productivity gains by a hundred to one. There really needs to be a way to select an element and break all associativity to other modeled elements, similar to how easy it is to un-constrain an EQ dimension.

    #2
    Maybe "Activate Dimensions?"
    Occasionally that will show you more than just the default dims
    Dave Plumb
    BWBR Architects; St Paul, MN

    CADsplaining: When a BIM rookie tells you how you should have done something.

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      #3
      You can try turning on the visibility of "Automatic Sketch Dimensions". These are sometimes the culprit behind some of the "unintended" constraints.
      Jeff Hanson
      Sr. Subject Matter Expert
      Autodesk, Revit - User Experience

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        #4
        If youre going to delete it, might as well just move with Disjoin checked. Youll lose your dimensions and hosted objects, but at least you wont lose the object itself.
        Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
        @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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          #5
          Originally posted by JeffH View Post
          You can try turning on the visibility of "Automatic Sketch Dimensions". These are sometimes the culprit behind some of the "unintended" constraints.
          Interesting - I wasn't aware that ASDs existed in project files... will definitely check that out next time.

          Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
          If youre going to delete it, might as well just move with Disjoin checked.
          Good tip! There isn't a hidden way to use Disjoin on walls, is there?

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            #6
            Originally posted by iru69 View Post
            Interesting - I wasn't aware that ASDs existed in project files... will definitely check that out next time.


            Good tip! There isn't a hidden way to use Disjoin on walls, is there?
            Other then the right-click on the blue dot (Disallow Join) and the brilliantly coded app in the RFO Addon, no there isn't.
            Martijn de Riet
            Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
            MdR Advies
            Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

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              #7
              Unless I am confused, disjoin works fine on walls. And wall hosted items come right along. Just the intersecting walls, ceilings, etc stay put. You do have to use the Move command, you can't move via dragging.

              Just remember that disjoin is now persistent, which is a fuster cluck of a software design decision if you ask me. But then so is putting the INI file in the roaming profile with no mechanism to address concurrent logons, so par for the course. And a tangent.

              Gordon
              Pragmatic Praxis

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                #8
                Originally posted by iru69 View Post
                Interesting - I wasn't aware that ASDs existed in project files... will definitely check that out next time.
                To be honset I am not sure where/if they manifest themselves too much, if at all in the project environment either. They do have a setting in VG of projects so there might be some place they show up??? I just figured I would mention them just in case.

                I typically associate them with the family editor too.
                Jeff Hanson
                Sr. Subject Matter Expert
                Autodesk, Revit - User Experience

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Gordon Price View Post
                  Unless I am confused...
                  No, you're not confused, my bad... I was forgetting to click "move" in order to see disjoin appear on the option bar.

                  I'm having a very frustrating revit day... it's just been one thing after another.

                  Originally posted by Gordon Price View Post
                  Just remember that disjoin is now persistent, which is a fuster cluck of a software design decision if you ask me.
                  Yep, couldn't agree more... there's a thread somewhere around here on that very point where I shared a similar opinion.
                  Last edited by iru69; May 20, 2011, 10:29 PM.

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                    #10
                    Disjoin being persistant is a goddamn disaster. The ONE tool in the program that SHOULDNT be persistant, is the ONE they made persistant. Dont even get me started on how much money its costing us.
                    Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
                    @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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