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3D Cleat Plate Family Troubles

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    3D Cleat Plate Family Troubles

    I am trying to adjust an existing cleat plate component to suit my actual detail. It's an unusual cleat because it runs at 45 degrees off the web, and welds to the flange also. The plate I have works in there, but it doesn't match my detail which I have had to add with 2D detail lines. I would like my plate to be adjustable, to match my detail (one side tapered). I have not been able to edit the profile in the family because of the way the plate needs to connect to the web its not a simple profile edit. I'm sure that this is possible, I am just at a loss as to how to achieve it and hoping someone more advanced with families can help me sort it out.
    I have attached some images to clarify.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by KeithW; December 13, 2010, 04:58 AM.

    Because my english is not quiet perfect, I guess your issue is about the shape of the plate.
    If your concern is about the shape, I would model it by a solid sweep, and the profile could be a parametric one, so that you could edit dimensions in the family type.
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      If the cleat is always 45degrees that would mean it doesnt centre on the column?

      If you just need to get the current family to work, you could easily change a few type properties to instance and you could manually adjust the plate length per instance

      But if you want it to be a little more usable, and if I understand the use you are after, I would suggest the following

      Add a reference plane and parameter that defines the column flange depth, this would be an instance parameter

      Add a reference plane which will be used for aligning in the model, this will be driven by the 45degree angle and the column flange depth distance

      Add a locked dimension or reference plane for plate extension beyond the column flange location

      Good luck
      Revit BLOGGAGE


        I would just like to bring it to the attention of the forum admin, that the 'retrieve password' function does not work properly. The site reset my password for me, but failed to email me the reset password...and so I have had to create a new account.

        Ok now to respond..

        The cleat is not always at 45 degrees. In this particular case, it is at 45 degrees, but the family itself is variable, hence the problem. The trimming of the plate to look like the 2D detail needs to happen by snapping reference planes to always remain perpendicular to the plate, regardless of its angle.
        The location of the plate is not central is the member CLEATING to the plate is the driving mechanism (ie there is a CHS at a higher level of which the centre-line intersects the centreline of the column, the cleat is offset to accept this member) see the attached images they should clarify.

        Its not the angle from the face thats the problem, its the face of the cleat itself I want to make look like the trimmed back version shown in the original 2D detail.
        Attached Files


          As for your password it's buried in your Junk or spam area, I had the same issue

          As for the family if I understand you right you are just looking to make the 2D detail represent correctly as the 3D is fine??
          In the this case I would create a section on the correct alignment and then add in detail lines, depending on where you cut sections in families and plans as long as they cut at the same planes the lines you have created will appear.

          I might be missing something here, but I thought thats what your chasing.


            I thought the 45degrees being constant was too good to be true. Having the angle change will complicate the family a little more, and you now have a couple of options depending how much user input you want the family to have

            It sounds like this connection is really setout by the column flange, as it has to be at the column flange location and then adjusted to suit the angle of connection member. (I wouldnt normally host a connection family like this though, it may be confusing for users to get their head around)

            If that is the case the family would be best centred and hosted in plan to the column flange edge, we could then have a user entered angle parameter that is instance based, and two reference planes to stretch the plate depth to the column web

            The key will be getting the angle parameter to work, you can then clean up at the web with voids which will make the calculated parameters needed pretty simple

            Hope that makes some sense? Give that a go, happy to take a look if you can get it started
            Revit BLOGGAGE



              No Roxx, the other way around, I want my 3D plate to look and trim like my 2D detail, a cut corner at the angle bracing (which could be variable depending on how many times this seucker was to be used) and then the bottom face to follow the line of the angle brace until it hits the base plate

              The thing is, in all my time I havent seen this case of a cleat very often so I wonder if its really worth the effort, the thing was more that I wanted to do this, I think its possible, but have no idea how..

              The case is quite unique Ben, and its connecting to a UC column, hence why its able to weld to that flange corner..actually that wasnt the original but the engineer and I both decided it added extra strength to the connection and so the CHS cleat at the top was slightly offset to allow this all to happen, the cleat plate (to the column) was placed and aligned to the flange, then the CHS plate aligned to its face, and the angles aligned to its face also...this also drove the location of the cleat at the bottom of the column to pick up the cross brace (back to back angles)

              Its a horrible detail..but it works.. The skewed cleat plate I use more for roof bracing as they tend to skew off at times to maintain bracing planes in the ceiling or roof structure...


                See attached a very quick workup of the workflow that I mean, it seems to work ok, but would require an understanding of how to place it
                Attached Files
                Revit BLOGGAGE



                  Karalon10 and M20roxxers.

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                  Sorry for the inconvenience so far.
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