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Thread: Pushback from a code reviewer re: 3D isometric diagrams

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    Pushback from a code reviewer re: 3D isometric diagrams

    So I found this link in my email this morning...

    https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/landde...riser-diagrams

    Evidently this code reviewer in Fairfax County VA is no longer accepting 3D isometric views in lieu of traditional 2D riser diagrams.

    I've been a big proponent of this approach because it saves time and of course because it's naturally accurate. I can create a 3D view, apply a View Tempate, tag the pipes and plumbing fixtures, and I'm done. I can also tag the fixture units, storm drain area, etc. at each pipe. But this doofus wants us to go back to hand-drawing the 2D riser diagrams because "these projections typically complicate rather than simplify the plumbing plans. This requires the county reviewer to decipher intended locations and connection points in order to verify code compliance." Give me a break.

    Thankfully my firm doesn't do much business in Fairfax County, but I hope this attitude doesn't catch on with other municipalities. I just thought I'd share this for discussion and to let people know that their local AHJ may not be a fan of these new-fangled 3D isometric diagrams.
    Last edited by Necro99; March 20th, 2018 at 09:19 PM.

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    Member kubsix's Avatar
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    Well that's unfortunate. Thanks for the heads-up. I've never seen a requirement for only flat 2D risers. 3D iso's provide so much more context to the detail. "Give me a break" is right .

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    Senior Member chris.macko's Avatar
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    I haven't seen a reviewer comment from this yet, but I did just have our plumbing guy change a riser diagram on a permit sheet to split the axon up by floor. It was only for a very small 2 story office, but showing both floors made it very hard to tell what was going where. Axons can absolutely be more informative, but some care has to be taken to make sure everything is legible, because it can get crowded pretty quick.
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    Member kubsix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.macko View Post
    ...I did just have our plumbing guy change a riser diagram on a permit sheet to split the axon up by floor...showing both floors made it very hard to tell what was going where...
    The Displace Element tool is nice for splitting axons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.macko View Post
    I haven't seen a reviewer comment from this yet, but I did just have our plumbing guy change a riser diagram on a permit sheet to split the axon up by floor. It was only for a very small 2 story office, but showing both floors made it very hard to tell what was going where. Axons can absolutely be more informative, but some care has to be taken to make sure everything is legible, because it can get crowded pretty quick.
    Exactly. It can look like a mess... if you're not careful. What we've taken to doing is having multiple 3D views, one of each floor, and then positioning them on the sheet far enough part vertically that they don't overlap. Then we hand-draw the risers lines connecting the two levels in the Sheet view.

    It just strikes me as asinine that we're expected to spend the extra time to model this stuff in 3D and then NOT be permitted to recoup our time by automating the process of producing isometrics.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pushback from a code reviewer re: 3D isometric diagrams-riser-diagram.jpg  
    Last edited by Necro99; March 21st, 2018 at 02:12 PM.

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    Senior Member chris.macko's Avatar
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    I'm not MEP, but I've always been kind of surprised this hasn't been addressed by Autodesk since it's something that pretty much every project will have. There has to be some better way to leverage that data.

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    Member TFuller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubsix View Post
    The Displace Element tool is nice for splitting axons.

    Be aware that displace elements requires a separate move for both pipe and insulation. Not that it applies with non-insulated pipe in coarse 3D views, but it is a thing worth remembering when getting creative.
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    At our firm we don't draw anything in the plumbing wall, just the drops down. So we wouldn't be able to have views like that. I might be able to convince people to allow us to connect to fixtures, after actually placing them if I could prove this saves a lot of time. The only think that holding me back is that on many of our jobs I would probably have to stitch 10 views together due to oddly shaped buildings or large sparse foot prints.
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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necro99 View Post
    Exactly. It can look like a mess... if you're not careful. What we've taken to doing is having multiple 3D views, one of each floor, and then positioning them on the sheet far enough part vertically that they don't overlap. Then we hand-draw the risers lines connecting the two levels in the Sheet view.

    It just strikes me as asinine that we're expected to spend the extra time to model this stuff in 3D and then NOT be permitted to recoup our time by automating the process of producing isometrics.

    Nicely done!

    I came across some MEP models (recently, while reviewing models for a client) that had either: Stopped modeling at the Plumbing walls, or (worse) stopped modeling when they got to the bathrooms alltogether. Then inside those boundaries, everything was detail lines.

    I recommended the Architecture Firm not work with those Engineers, from this point forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necro99 View Post
    Exactly. It can look like a mess... if you're not careful. What we've taken to doing is having multiple 3D views, one of each floor, and then positioning them on the sheet far enough part vertically that they don't overlap. Then we hand-draw the risers lines connecting the two levels in the Sheet view.

    It just strikes me as asinine that we're expected to spend the extra time to model this stuff in 3D and then NOT be permitted to recoup our time by automating the process of producing isometrics.

    Actually this doesn't look too far off from how we are modeling. It looks like your not using carriers. Are you just using wyes to the WC? Are you running the pipe in the plumbing walls flat? I think this might be doable for us. How do you deal with large sprawling buildings and sanitary systems? What about domestic risers?

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