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    Concrete beam schedules?

    How are you scheduling your concrete beams?

    This is what we were using in ACAD... Do you have anything similar in RST?
    Attached Files
    Leanne Zaras, CDT, LEED AP
    AutoCAD 2010 Certified Professional / Revit Architecture 2012 Certified Professional / Revit Structure 2015 Certified Professional
    ACAD2021, RST2014-2021 / Windows 10, 64-bit

    #2
    Not similar but 'superior'.
    We use "Structural Framing" Schedules.
    These report every member in the project.
    Using filtering & organization, etc. these can be very powerful...and always correct.
    -J
    http://about.me/JayZallan
    Tweet, Link or Blog me up!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Hum, about reinforcement, I would not say superior.
      You will need manual input to achieve this with Rst.
      Julien
      "Au royaume des aveugles, les borgnes sont mal vus!"
      P. DAC
      Follow me on Twitter @Jbenoit44 - Blog: http://aecuandme.wordpress.com/

      Comment


        #4
        I looked at Structural Framing Schedules and I'm having a difficult time trying to get several lines (different types of reinforcing) for each Beam Type.

        Can you clue me in to how you go about Scheduling your Concrete Framing to be able to include all the different types? I realize there may be a different workflow to scheduling these beams in Revit; I'm just trying to figure out what others are doing and trying to see if it's going to work for us.

        (We're used to using a Beam Placement Detail, like the one attached, along with our schedules.)
        Attached Files
        Leanne Zaras, CDT, LEED AP
        AutoCAD 2010 Certified Professional / Revit Architecture 2012 Certified Professional / Revit Structure 2015 Certified Professional
        ACAD2021, RST2014-2021 / Windows 10, 64-bit

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jbenoit44 View Post
          Hum, about reinforcement, I would not say superior.
          You will need manual input to achieve this with Rst.
          jbenoit44

          Ho Hum,
          Being that I have used ACAD since 1985 and Revit since 2000 and have created a lot of projects with each I would say Revit is superior in every way; but let's leave that alone for now (you can contact me directly if you care to debate their merits).

          Beams would be scheduled distinctly from Reinforcing, etc. In Revit components are separate from one another, just like in construction: first the rebar is laid, then the concrete poured.

          As to LeanneZ questions; if the reinforcing is modeled simply create a live Detail Section and you're golden...That's what we do.
          If the model doesn't contain reinforcing (not really recommended) then a Drafting View Detail could be used; but that opens you up to the inevitability of extra coordination, then possibly errors & omissions and unwanted distinctions from the true model...

          Schedules available in Revit (Structural items bold):
          <Multi-Category>
          Air Terminals
          Analytical Beams
          Analytical Braces
          Analytical Columns
          Analytical Floors
          Analytical Foundation Slabs
          Analytical Isolated Foundations
          Analytical Wall Foundations
          Analytical Walls
          Areas (Gross Building)
          Areas (Rentable)
          Assemblies
          Cable Tray Fittings
          Cable Tray Runs
          Cable Trays
          Casework
          Ceilings
          Communication Devices
          Conduit Fittings
          Conduit Runs
          Conduits
          Curtain Panels
          Curtain Systems
          Curtain Wall Mullions
          Data Devices
          Doors
          Duct Accessories
          Duct Fittings
          Duct Insulations
          Duct Linings
          Duct Placeholders
          Duct Systems
          Ducts
          Electrical Circuits
          Electrical Equipment
          Electrical Fixtures
          Fire Alarm Devices
          Flex Ducts
          Flex Pipes
          Floors
          Slab Edges
          Furniture
          Furniture Systems
          HVAC Zones
          Lighting Devices
          Lighting Fixtures
          Mass
          Mass Exterior Wall
          Mass Floor
          Mass Glazing
          Mass Interior Wall
          Mass Opening
          Mass Roof
          Mass Skylight
          Mass Zone
          Mechanical Equipment
          Nurse Call Devices
          Parking
          Parts
          Pipe Accessories
          Pipe Fittings
          Pipe Insulations
          Pipe Placeholders
          Pipes
          Piping Systems
          Planting
          Plumbing Fixtures
          Railings
          Hardware
          Panels
          Posts
          Segments
          Ramps
          Roofs
          Fascias
          Gutters
          Rooms
          Security Devices
          Site
          Property Line Segments
          Property Lines
          Spaces
          Specialty Equipment
          Sprinklers
          Stairs
          Structural Columns
          Structural Connections
          Structural Foundations
          Structural Framing
          Structural Internal Loads
          Internal Area Loads
          Internal Line Loads
          Internal Point Loads
          Structural Loads
          Area Loads
          Line Loads
          Point Loads
          Structural Rebar
          Structural Stiffeners
          Structural Trusses

          Switch System
          Telephone Devices
          Topography
          Walls
          Wall Sweeps
          Windows
          -J
          http://about.me/JayZallan
          Tweet, Link or Blog me up!!!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by JBZ View Post
            jbenoit44

            Ho Hum,
            Being that I have used ACAD since 1985 and Revit since 2000 and have created a lot of projects with each I would say Revit is superior in every way; but let's leave that alone for now (you can contact me directly if you care to debate their merits).

            Beams would be scheduled distinctly from Reinforcing, etc. In Revit components are separate from one another, just like in construction: first the rebar is laid, then the concrete poured.
            I'm sure both the OP and Julien were aware of the fact that rebar can be scheduled. The question however was, can it be scheduled combined with the columns...
            Frankly, I don't know enough about Rebar (scheduling) to answer this.

            Does it show up in a MC-schedule?
            Can you tie custom shared parameters to ootb dimensions?
            Martijn de Riet
            Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
            MdR Advies
            Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by mdradvies View Post
              I'm sure both the OP and Julien were aware of the fact that rebar can be scheduled. The question however was, can it be scheduled combined with the columns...
              Frankly, I don't know enough about Rebar (scheduling) to answer this.

              Does it show up in a MC-schedule?
              Can you tie custom shared parameters to ootb dimensions?
              Martijn,
              If the question was actually:
              "can it be scheduled combined with the columns"
              Then the simple answer would have been: No.

              I might have added 'but who cares if they are separate; as long as the information exists and is correct... they can always be close together on sheets!!!' I am not trying to be an A hole but we must allow our (AEC) processes to evolve and chasing graphics is antithetical to that in this case.

              "Does it show up in a MC-schedule?" Yes both show up. While filtering can get them isolated together they won't be next to one another like the CAD image wants; AND there are bigger limitations (as you know) to what is included in MC schedules; so even though they can schedule both (technically) MC schedules aren't the way to go for their needs.

              "Can you tie custom shared parameters to ootb dimensions?" MC schedules do not expose all of the parameters (like length, etc) so MC schedule would not work so the question becomes moot (as I read this question as tying into an MC schedule).

              The originating question was: "How are you scheduling your concrete beams?" This set a presumption of needing to know HOW...nothing about rebar except in the image... Sorry if I read it exactly as it appeared :-)

              Place the Beam & Reinforcing schedules next to, or near to each other and move on.

              Develop a BIM workflow that while it may not look exactly like prior (manual) schedules, the quality of the information derived from the model will make such change be so beneficial to the project & firm's bottom line ($$$) that we'll laugh about chasing CAD graphics like these.

              When weighing against the cost of chasing graphics for graphics sake I will suggest informational fidelity every time.

              Rather than trying to find work-arounds because Revit or BIM project/production work "LOOKS" different than what we may be used to; if we focused on getting the information correct we'd be far better off.
              -J
              http://about.me/JayZallan
              Tweet, Link or Blog me up!!!

              Comment


                #8
                @JBZ
                I think I understand what you're saying about essentially having TWO schedules to cover the Framing and the Rebar, separately.

                ...
                We've yet to model a concrete building, but the time is coming...

                Our most recent concrete building was started before I came here, and was in-process when I started. For documentation, my small group of coworkers were using ACAD. I'm looking at the process I would use to model this building in Revit, because I know we'll get more, similar buildings and they will be modeled in Revit when they come.

                This particular project was a 7-story hospital with hundreds of differently designed beams per floor. The workflow my engineers are currently using is that they design the concrete beams in a separate analysis program. They get the output that we (CAD personnel) manually type into spreadsheets. On a 7-story building, we probably have about a thousand different beams. I'm having a difficult time imagining modeling all the rebar for thousands of concrete beams! {{overwhelmed}}

                Is there a way that the spreadsheets could drive the modeling of the beams in RST? That would be ultimate. Have you found that your engineers resist new workflows (because I have) or simplify a building's design?

                Maybe I'm just stressing out before I actually need to work on this type of project in RST?
                Leanne Zaras, CDT, LEED AP
                AutoCAD 2010 Certified Professional / Revit Architecture 2012 Certified Professional / Revit Structure 2015 Certified Professional
                ACAD2021, RST2014-2021 / Windows 10, 64-bit

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well, if your Engineers are using RSA2012, then they will be more then happy to have the structure modeled in Revit.
                  I don't think that linking RST with a spreadsheet is possible nor plausible.
                  The future looks like this:
                  Model building in RAC->Model structural elements in RST -> Sent it to RSA (or other structural program) or online analysis "Project <something>"->Compute reinforcement and element size in RSA (Project <something>)->Resend it to RST for drafting->Print it for contractor
                  I'm only half way the road (Modeled in RST and send it to Robot for analysis).
                  Revit Architecture 2013 Certified Professional

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by JBZ View Post
                    jbenoit44

                    Ho Hum,
                    Being that I have used ACAD since 1985 and Revit since 2000 and have created a lot of projects with each I would say Revit is superior in every way; but let's leave that alone for now (you can contact me directly if you care to debate their merits).

                    Beams would be scheduled distinctly from Reinforcing, etc. In Revit components are separate from one another, just like in construction: first the rebar is laid, then the concrete poured.
                    I agree that Revit is in many ways superior to Cad world, not in every way.....yet. I'm sure it will be one day. And I'm involved.

                    You should ask people like concrete precast elements drafters, curtain wall designers, reinforcement drafters, steel framing drafters if Revit is profficient in detailling for shop drawings, I'm pretty sure they would say no. And even more if you compare Revit to other softs dealing with structure stuff.

                    And as a major evidence, you should notice that Autodesk puts Autocad Structural Detailing in the Revit Structure Suite, still in 2012.

                    About rebars and pouring, following your thoughts, we could have a schedule for hooks, a schedule for rebars, a schedule for stirrups, one for connections etc....

                    This is definitely not a way to follow for professionals, Autodesk knows, and works to improve this, trying to reach the same level of detailing efficiency as other Pro-ware.

                    We have to be patient, for sure I am.
                    Julien
                    "Au royaume des aveugles, les borgnes sont mal vus!"
                    P. DAC
                    Follow me on Twitter @Jbenoit44 - Blog: http://aecuandme.wordpress.com/

                    Comment

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