Wall Sections and Details...the proper way?

[Defiant1]

Hoping to better understand the use of drating views (and detail groups) I'd like to know how others prepare their shop drawings regarding wall sections and details.

For example wall sections, to date we have always cut the section thru the 3D model and used that section for the wall section on the sheet. I'm not entirely convinced this is the correct way....in fact the more I explore this the more wrong it seems to be.

Using the section thru the 3d model....if something changes later....and something always changes later...all related dimensions are deleted. If you cut "working" sections or details thru the area, all those section cuts/heads now show up in the view that's been placed on the sheet. (Annoying as hell)

By no measure am I an experienced Revit user - but for the past week I've been exploring and using drafting views for my details (connection details, embed details, etc..) This has worked great and recent substantial changes did not impact any of my details...

It seems to me then, the proper way to make wall sections (on the sheets) is to take the 3D section cut, make it a Drafting view, and dimension accordingly.

Is this correct?? Again, I'm not the Revit guru - but then none in our office is...so I'd like to arm myself with some intelligent points of argument before I open this can of worms at our next staff meeting.

Assuming the above approach IS the correct and proper way.., How does one then handle the inevitable changes that come later? The drafting view, no longer associated with the model elements will no longer update. Is the only way then to re-create the drafting view from the updated model?

I really want to understand this and am very interested in how much-more-experienced users document their models.

Thanks in advance for what I know will be informative/educational comments.

[jbenoit44]

Using the section thru the 3d model....if something changes later....and something always changes later...all related dimensions are deleted. If you cut "working" sections or details thru the area, all those section cuts/heads now show up in the view that's been placed on the sheet. (Annoying as hell)

I let you know what I do:
I don't have any problem with cut views, even when something changes. any examples?
FYI, I use a lot callouts on cut views to detail, with detail components locked on faces. And I use view templates to set what should be on every view type.
Almost never use drafting views, only for very typical details that goes from a project to another.

[IMCarter]

We use the 3d sections, and we haven't had any problems. Our details consist of 3d elements, 2d detail components, dimensions & notes. Yes, if something changes, the detail changes. This is something I like, as everything stays current with the design. The only time a dimension would be lost is if you are deleting an element that the dimension is attached to. If you are simply moving elements, the dimension should just update with it.

Like Julien, the only thing I use drafting views for is typical details.

If you really don't like to use the 3d sections, you can hide unreferenced section cuts (meaning the 3d section views haven't been placed on a sheet) when printing. This is an option in the print dialog.

[rkitect]

By no measure am I an experienced Revit user - but for the past week I've been exploring and using drafting views for my details (connection details, embed details, etc..) This has worked great and recent substantial changes did not impact any of my details...

Time for an "I told you so" story. So I was hired at this firm cause I knew what I was doing in Revit and they didn't. So it came time to start producing details and sections of many MANY stone and wall column details. They asked me how to do it, I told them using detail callouts and sections, etc, etc. They didn't like that for the very reason that you mentioned. Anytime they changed something major, dimensions disappear. So instead of listening to the guys they hired to tell them how to use Revit, they created every detail by turning the model off in the views and using detail lines and filled regions.

Now, before I go much further. Honestly, how long does it take you to pull a dimensions string in a section view? Further more, when was it ever a bad thing that a change in a project produced an OBVIOUS OMISSION OF DATA? If anything that reads to me as "oh, huh, something I did over here has obviously impacted this section and attention should be paid here." Back to story...

So 8 months down the road, we're under construction. Stone shops are being submitted for approval and a LOT of changes are being made. So we update the model and resubmit the details. Guess what? All of those details that were drafted didn't update because they are not live, and since the Revit guys in the office were off working on other projects, no one bothered to ask "hey, are these details updating when we change the model?" since you know, that's what Revit is supposed to do [when used correctly]. Fortunately, we were able to catch the errors in the submitted ASKs and ASIs before it really took an even larger bite out of our project budget than it already had.

Now this is from a rather large addition and renovation project, one of complexity I will probably never see again in my career. The fact remains though that the time it would have taken to re do a dimension here or there far outweighs the time and $$ it will take to find out after construction has started that your details have nothing to do with everything else you're seeing in the model.

That being said, you are correct; there are several annoyances in detailing in Revit. You're going to have to realize that part of the difference between AutoCAD and Revit is workflow. This means you have to wait a bit longer to get those firmed up dimensions and annotations on your details. It's just how the workflow works right now with Revit projects.

[mthurnauer]

The use of drafting views is valid when the detail you are creating is generic. Often, structural engineers make Typical details (an arguable practice). If it is typical, then it is not specific to one location and a drafting view is fine. If a Section or detail is about a specific condition, then it should be a live section for the reasons mentioned above.

[G Jowett]

Using the section thru the 3d model....if something changes later....and something always changes later...all related dimensions are deleted. If you cut "working" sections or details thru the area, all those section cuts/heads now show up in the view that's been placed on the sheet. (Annoying as hell)

By no measure am I an experienced Revit user - but for the past week I've been exploring and using drafting views for my details (connection details, embed details, etc..) This has worked great and recent substantial changes did not impact any of my details..

The idea of working in 3D is to make life easier when changes do occur, it keeps things consistant throughout the project and you will clearly see the impact a change will have on any other part of the structure, if you are going to 'draw' your details, you might as well just go back to using AutoCAD.

If using 2D components to 'tidy up' your detail, aligning and locking this to the 3D model element will ensure that if a wall thickness changes for example, and you have 2D masonry units placed on the model section, the masonry units if locked to the faces of the wall will then update automatically.

When you say the dimensions delete when you make changes, what changes are you making exactly?