Architect Modifying Levels

[RobDraw]

I just got the heads up from the architect that they will be modifying their levels and project base point. Our MEP models are copy/monitoring the levels. I've only tried this one time before and it did not go well.

Any suggestions/best practices?

[snowyweston]

Any suggestions/best practices?

You're right to be cautious.

1. Advise them they would be ill advised to move their PBP.

2. Make yourselves some scratch copies of your models for testing the fallout-affect (when their models do arrive)


...at least with copy/monitor you are given the chance to work through the changes - rejecting/accepting as you go - but I've never seen it play nice (with elements that relate to one another) on anything larger than a test model.

[josephpeel]

Moving levels is fine, if everything is associated with the correct levels.
Theres a Dynamo solution for setting the level of everything correctly discussed here;

https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/revit-mep-re-associate-elements-to-a-different-level/10957

(Although ideally you want everything in the ceiling to be associated with the level above rather than the same floor..)


But in practice... I recently had the same problem and just created new a new level without moving the old one, then gradually migrated stuff to the new one as the design was updated.

[RobDraw]

They are driving the project and the decision was made as of the notification. Structure is in-house with the architect and is also copy/monitoring the levels. I'm waiting for them to go through their process before starting mine. Hopefully they will hash out anything major.

My main concern is that this is going to cause a bunch of disconnects and am trying to minimize that. This building has multiple areas/wings at differing level elevations. I'm wondering if there is some way I can do something creative like breaking up our models into the different wings and deleting all but one of the levels and then copy/paste into a new project with the new level locations?

[RobDraw]

Unfortunately, because this is a complicated project and most of the users are fairly new to Revit. Associating to the correct levels was not something that was addressed for the most part. I'm sure we all have elements that are associated with a level in a different wing of the building.

[snowyweston]

This building has multiple areas/wings at differing level elevations. I'm wondering if there is some way I can do something creative like breaking up our models into the different wings and deleting all but one of the levels and then copy/paste into a new project with the new level locations?

Do you have dedicated levels-per-wing? Or do you try to use 'Level 01' for all Level 01s, offset as they are?

We (Architecture) employ distinct levels for staggered floor plates - to aid countering some of the aforementioned worries - and I imagine the same would (only) aid MEP modelling.

Unfortunately, because this is a complicated project and most of the users are fairly new to Revit. Associating to the correct levels was not something that was addressed for the most part. I'm sure we all have elements that are associated with a level in a different wing of the building.

Then perhaps the work on the horizon is a good opportunity to pull the brakes a little and do some housekeeping, (and maybe explore your thinking on level separations further)

[RobDraw]

Each "wing" has unique levels.

[RobDraw]

I experimented with splitting up the HVAC model trying to get elements associated with the correct level but as I delete levels the elements hosted to them also get deleted.

If fittings behaved like ductwork and didn't move when assigned a new level, I could make this work.

[Necro99]

If fittings behaved like ductwork and didn't move when assigned a new level, I could make this work.

And that right there is the crux of the problem. I think we've all been there at one point or another. :/ For this reason, I try to be very disciplined about what Reference Level my ductwork and piping is using. For instance, I try very hard to avoid having a duct elbow on Level 2 use Level 1 as it's Ref Level with an offset of 19'...

And this is why, at the start of the project, I pick up the phone and talk to the the Architect's Revit Guy/Gal. I describe this very situation and explain that this is what I'm trying to avoid by setting the levels correctly now. Architects don't understand how badly this can screw the MEP people.

From a proposal/contract standpoint, I feel like the MEP engineer would be justified in putting it in their fee proposal that moving the levels or PBP would result in a Change Order. I mean, how many hours are you going to spend reacting to this BS? That's eating into your project budget. If the Architect knew it was going to cost them extra money they would have gotten it right the first time.

[Twiceroadsfool]

While i sympathize with the headaches that MEP engineers have to deal with, you would be wiser to realize that- a lot of the times- its the OWNER directing the change, and not the "Architect not having their stuff right the first time." However, i completely agree with getting paid for it.

Of course, i dont recommend you accuse the project client of "not having their **** right the first time," but im assuming you only feel that way about "architects."

LOL, i love reading comments from MEP folks.