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Voids! Can't make them work!

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    Voids! Can't make them work!

    Hi!

    I am here trying to make Voids work, but something is not right! I'm EXTREMELY confused, so I captured lots of screens to make myself clearer! :banghead:


    1 - OK, so first I sketched some shapes with Reflines. I'm really not sure why, but I read somewhere Reflines are usually more flexible than Model Lines. I couldn't get to the end of the tutorial I was reading, so I don't know exactly what benefits I would have with Reflines. The thing is: I have the option of selecting the surface created by the lines ("Form Element") OR the chain of lines itself. How does this makes things different when creating Voids? Which one should I choose?


    2 - Sometimes when I create Voids and type the desired Offset, the orange form that represents it just vanishes, and I don't seem able to click on it again. What is that exactly?


    3 - I used the Rectangle tool to draw some of the Voids I want, but I can't find a way to do that. They can be turned into Solids but not Voids. What am I missing here? I already posted a question related to this, and Munkholm suggested I create Voids separately first, and then locking them afterwards. I still can't do that.


    4 - I tried drawing a new rectangle, this time with Model Lines. I tried pulling the arrow up/down, I tried by clicking the Create Void button, but apparently every time I try something a little different, I get weird results. Sometimes I can't create the Void, only a Solid. Sometimes I create the Void, but then it vanishes (as in #2). This time I managed to create a Void from a rectangle, but I don't have the ability to change Positive/Negative constrains. Also, this time I cannot seem to click on the Void and select it as a whole, only its surfaces. The other Voids that worked, I need only to click once for it to select all surfaces, as a volume.5 - I've seen some video tutorials of how to use a Void to Cut Geometry of a Solid. Why would I need to do that, if the Void is already a Tool that would work that way? What is the difference between the two? Needless to say that I didn't manage to Cut Geometry this way...


    I have some basic knowledge of AutoCAD, so I'm not exactly a TOTAL Newbie in this kind of software, but Revit is proving to be much more difficult than it appeared to be. I really like the command lines at the bottom of the screen in AutoCAD, so then you know exactly what you are doing. Why Revit doesn't have that too?



    Thanks a lot again!
    Attached Files

    #2
    Originally posted by SkepticSon View Post
    ...I have some basic knowledge of AutoCAD, so I'm not exactly a TOTAL Newbie in this kind of software, but Revit is proving to be much more difficult than it appeared to be. I really like the command lines at the bottom of the screen in AutoCAD, so then you know exactly what you are doing. Why Revit doesn't have that too?
    ...
    Yup, Revit is a different animal. Your knowledge of AutoCAD has practically zero value when it comes to learning Revit. ...You are beginning to learn Revit by yourself, and you are starting with...solids and voids, or the family editor? That is not the proper place to start, in my opinion. That explains all the :banghead: that you are experiencing.
    Freelance BIM Provider at Autodesk Services Marketplace | Linkedin

    Comment


      #3
      From the screen captures it appears you are trying to trace over an existing CAD file to create walls? Is that right?
      I'm with Alfredo on this. In order to effectively use Revit you'll need to start by understanding the basics of the underlying behavior of objects and their relationships to one another.
      Whether you are creating these objects as in place elements or within the family editor environment each family can be made of up a one or more pieces of geometry. These pieces can be joined to create more complex forms or subtracted from one another to sculpt forms
      Let us know what you're tying to accomplish and maybe wew'll be better equiped to give you help to get you there using the proper tools.
      Last edited by Dimitri Harvalias; June 27, 2011, 05:37 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        First off, by the looks of things you are completely off base here. What are you trying to do? Create Walls or something? I completely agree with the first responses: please make your life easier and find a bunch of basic Revit tutorials, this won't get you anywhere.
        For instance, Solids and Voids in Revit are merely used as something to "drape" your building components on. In the project environment, Masses are used to create a building form or outline. On this you place Walls, Floors, etc. You do NOT create Solids as Walls to convert them later.
        In the Family Editor, you use Solids and Voids to create a Form. On this Form you assign materials and with that other features.

        About your questions:

        Originally posted by SkepticSon View Post
        Hi!

        I am here trying to make Voids work, but something is not right! I'm EXTREMELY confused, so I captured lots of screens to make myself clearer! :banghead:


        1 - OK, so first I sketched some shapes with Reflines. I'm really not sure why, but I read somewhere Reflines are usually more flexible than Model Lines. I couldn't get to the end of the tutorial I was reading, so I don't know exactly what benefits I would have with Reflines. The thing is: I have the option of selecting the surface created by the lines ("Form Element") OR the chain of lines itself. How does this makes things different when creating Voids? Which one should I choose?


        Reflines are definately NOT more flexible then model lines. Reflines are ment to be used as a reference (as the name states), not as a sketching tool. The mere purpose of reflines makes them less suitable.
        Well, a Form usually creates a solid geometry, while selecting the edges usually creates a hollow geometry (only the surfaces)

        2 - Sometimes when I create Voids and type the desired Offset, the orange form that represents it just vanishes, and I don't seem able to click on it again. What is that exactly?
        Voids have the tendency to automatically Join with solids they cut. The orange appearance only exists when they don't cut anything. If they do cut anything, they'll disappear. But you can still select them. Hover over a place you know an edge of the void is, hit tab and it will show up.

        3 - I used the Rectangle tool to draw some of the Voids I want, but I can't find a way to do that. They can be turned into Solids but not Voids. What am I missing here? I already posted a question related to this, and Munkholm suggested I create Voids separately first, and then locking them afterwards. I still can't do that.
        You can only turn a solid into a void after finishing the sketch mode. Perhaps this is the problem?

        4 - I tried drawing a new rectangle, this time with Model Lines. I tried pulling the arrow up/down, I tried by clicking the Create Void button, but apparently every time I try something a little different, I get weird results. Sometimes I can't create the Void, only a Solid. Sometimes I create the Void, but then it vanishes (as in #2). This time I managed to create a Void from a rectangle, but I don't have the ability to change Positive/Negative constrains. Also, this time I cannot seem to click on the Void and select it as a whole, only its surfaces. The other Voids that worked, I need only to click once for it to select all surfaces, as a volume.5 - I've seen some video tutorials of how to use a Void to Cut Geometry of a Solid. Why would I need to do that, if the Void is already a Tool that would work that way? What is the difference between the two? Needless to say that I didn't manage to Cut Geometry this way...
        Well, these are a lot of questions, some of which I can't understand. To answer some:
        - A Void can be created without cutting any element. Typical behaviour if you create a solid first and then turn it into a Void (the orange look). After this you need to specify the elements which you want the void to cut.
        - If you can't seem to be able to select the whole Void, use the Tab key. This toggles between different selection options.

        I have some basic knowledge of AutoCAD, so I'm not exactly a TOTAL Newbie in this kind of software, but Revit is proving to be much more difficult than it appeared to be. I really like the command lines at the bottom of the screen in AutoCAD, so then you know exactly what you are doing. Why Revit doesn't have that too?



        Thanks a lot again!
        [/quote]

        Well, forget about autocad. Doesn't mean squad in the world of Revit. As it happens there IS a sort of commandline native in Revit (leftside of the grey bar underneath your drawing window) which will tell you your options at a certain point.
        As for the modelling: PLEASE do yourself a favor and find some good tutorials. I don't know if dgcad.com is still online, but they used to have some fine basic tutorials. Another great site is cadclips.com.

        Good luck!
        Martijn de Riet
        Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
        MdR Advies
        Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks everyone for all the answers!!! Some of my questions were answered and I got to understand some things a little better.

          I'm really trying to find good tutorials around the net to help me, but that's not being easy. I'm studying tutorials I downloaded from the Autodesk Educational site right now. Maybe I still don't understand some very basic things and probably I don't know which ones they are! :crazy:


          To give an overall explanation of what I was trying to do: I started a small project to try to get some experience on Revit (while following the tutorials from Autodesk I mentioned). The lines you see underneath the Masses were made in Revit, I didn't import anything from CAD files. I had a previous idea of the shape I wanted, and then I sketched a plan.

          Now I wanted to find a way to manipulate the shape as freely as I could. I want to rethink the project in terms of volumes created, not just outside but also the space inside. Something like manipulating clay.


          Any suggestions on how to put that into practice? I'm not using the Family Editor, I did everything in-place inside the Project.

          Again, thank you all for your time and answers!!!

          Comment


            #6
            Start using the Conceptual Mass tool. It's ment for just that: creating forms.
            Martijn de Riet
            Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
            MdR Advies
            Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

            Comment

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