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    Stairs by Component

    Firstly, a few general matters.

    Given the change in the stairs with stairs by components etc, one needs to use the new templates which ship with 2013. These new templates house the four new tags. The four new annotation families are: Stair Landing Tag, Stair Run Tag, Stair Support Tag and a newer version of Stair Tag with two types. I know there are those here who would strongly advocate rebuilding your template with each new release. No doubt a sound policy. As I am time poor, I tend to upgrade my previous template. For me, stair behaviour seems the same in both instances. Nevertheless, YMMV. Most recent testing has shown no discernible difference in behaviour when using an upgraded office template and the OOTB template which ships with Revit.

    Stringer profiles for use with stairs are also new and are included in the metric(imperial)/library/profiles/framing folder. The stringer is now a system family and one can use your standard structural profiles for stair stringers - whilst it is buried a bit, flip controls of the stringers are as a type property are found in the Right a left support type properties. Middle support is currently very limited where one can only create a rectangular or square section via a height and width input. If one was planning to use a steel member I beam PFC etc as the central support one would need to model it separately on reference planes.

    Well, I guess the good news. With 2013 stairs we now have:

    • Tread or riser numbering tag (well it is sort of good, but it can only be used with Stairs by component – a few problems with that as you will see below)
    • Landings can be modeled separately making multi storey stairs somewhat easier – albeit there is a current problem having the railing run across multiple stairs correctly.


    Ok, now the bad – Stairs by component.

    • Winder Stairs. I don’t know about other jurisdictions, but for those of us in Australia and New Zealand the winder stair tool CANNOT create a residential stair which is legal and complies with Building Code of Australia’s requirements as set out in Figure 3.9.1.1. Autodesk have been aware of this since early December 2011. In my view this is not only gobsmakingly stupid, but is also unconscionable to allow the new winder tool to remain in the shipped version whilst knowing of these serious flaws and limitations. My advice to anyone using 2013 in Oz or NZ is to never use the winder tool and to advise particularly your junior staff that the use of this tool will be grounds for immediate dismissal.
    • The other problem with the winder tool which effects everyone, is that they simply do not model the stair stringers correctly. Again, AD have been aware of this for many months. In all of the winder stairs, I have ever seen, the stringer remains parallel to the straight run of the stairs and an additional widening of the stringer allows for the winders. As modeled, these stairs have a stringer which is not parallel to the straight run of the stair but runs up at a slight angle. This modeling error seriously sucks, as one is required to hide the stringer and draw detail lines in sections and elevations. With 3d views, I guess all we can do is just hope that nobody notices it!
    • Circular stairs. Once one has set the width of the stair, the only way to change is to grab the shape handlers and drag the stair in or out. Using this method there is no way to size the stair accurately.

    Stairs by component have quite a number of separate elements all of which control separate parts of the stair. Not very intuitive but, one can find ones way around after a bit of time.

    • Railings have a number of issues
    o Multi storey railings are still very problematic – although they mostly get it wrong around the landings between flights.

    Railings are not visible if in coarse view.

    I do remember that there are / were problems around railing extensions and also the way railings are viewed in plan view not correlating exactly to how they are modeled, but with the other massive flaws in stairs by components I kind of lost track of whether these were corrected or not for release candidate.

    The other elephant in the room with stairs by component is that, imho, the entire workflow premise they a built upon is totally flawed. Being, ADesk, naturally it is unlikely to change, but, I at least hope that they fix up the flaws noted above before 2014…15….16….???
    FWIW, I spoke with an Autodesk project manager a day or two back. It was acknowledged that they are acutely aware of the issues and are working towards rectifying them. When that might happen, I have no idea, but I certainly hope that it happens as part of any Web Updates this year.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Ian.Kidston; March 28, 2012, 01:56 AM. Reason: typo
    Ian Kidston
    http://allextensions.com.au

    #2
    Yeah, very frustrating. I commend the idea of making an effort to FINALLY adress the winding stair problem (btw, majority of dutch residential chairs have either 1 or two windings). Cause why else redo the way we create stairs? Straight stairs and stairs with landings were doable with the old modelling tools...

    But why for the love of god create a new tool to make stairs just to make it so that it DOESN'T solve the problem with the stairs...? .
    I'm stumped. Not one of those people s**tbagging the Factory with every release but that is just plain crazy. Does this new tool do 1 thing the old ones couldn't???
    Martijn de Riet
    Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
    MdR Advies
    Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

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      #3
      Well, for a straight run of stairs or stairs with a landing, it is somewhat quicker to create the stairs, and, as noted above we do get automatic stair numbering. Neither of these in anyway balances out the problems with winders and circular stairs. Multi storey stairs, whilst not without their problems vis a vis railings also works quite well.

      Interestingly, I am yet to find stairs anywhere in the world which match the type of winder which can be created with the winder tool. I have found some which are sort of closeish, but I am yet to find a stair where the stair tread in the straight part of the run is angled and not perpendicular to the stringer.
      Ian Kidston
      http://allextensions.com.au

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Ian.Kidston View Post

        but I am yet to find a stair where the stair tread in the straight part of the run is angled and not perpendicular to the stringer.
        You didnt look then. What Revit does is totally normal with winder stairs and the correct way. In case you do, how long have you been working with buildings?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Ian.Kidston View Post
          Well, for a straight run of stairs or stairs with a landing, it is somewhat quicker to create the stairs, and, as noted above we do get automatic stair numbering. Neither of these in anyway balances out the problems with winders and circular stairs. Multi storey stairs, whilst not without their problems vis a vis railings also works quite well.

          Interestingly, I am yet to find stairs anywhere in the world which match the type of winder which can be created with the winder tool. I have found some which are sort of closeish, but I am yet to find a stair where the stair tread in the straight part of the run is angled and not perpendicular to the stringer.
          Originally posted by Ian.Kidston View Post

          Interestingly, I am yet to find stairs anywhere in the world which match the type of winder which can be created with the winder tool. I have found some which are sort of closeish, but I am yet to find a stair where the stair tread in the straight part of the run is angled and not perpendicular to the stringer.
          Whining today, are we? In case you dont know, the way Revit now does winders is the correct and normal way. Maybe you didnt look anywhere in the world then, and maybe even not in your own neighbourhood.

          Comment


            #6
            Well, it is good if they are common somewhere. For those, the tool will be very useful. Where does one come across a typical winder with an angled tread in the straight run?
            Ian Kidston
            http://allextensions.com.au

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DrAc View Post
              You didnt look then. What Revit does is totally normal with winder stairs and the correct way. In case you do, how long have you been working with buildings?
              Originally posted by DrAc View Post
              Whining today, are we? In case you dont know, the way Revit now does winders is the correct and normal way. Maybe you didnt look anywhere in the world then, and maybe even not in your own neighbourhood.
              Any particular reason to get all cranky and without a hint of interest in an actual debate? It's that time of the month perhaps??? Maybe time to tone it down a little so that we can all keep it friendly here.

              Don't know where YOU are from, but Ian's remarks are completely true and valid for at least a great part of Europe too... What Revit fudges with the new tool, and always has klunked out in the old way is nothing near to being accurate or correct.
              Martijn de Riet
              Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
              MdR Advies
              Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DrAc View Post
                You didnt look then. What Revit does is totally normal with winder stairs and the correct way. In case you do, how long have you been working with buildings?
                So where you are from, the stringers aren't parallel with the slope of the stairs? Have a look at Ians images, I've never seen that in any stairs I've worked with, and I've worked in over 5 countries.
                I would assume that normally stringers are always parallel with the slope of the stairs....please show me a normal example where this isnt the case
                Alex Page
                RevitWorks Ltd
                Check out our Door Factory, the door maker add-in for Revit

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                  #9
                  Hey, maybe that was an autodesk dude who have a broken stair in his house :laugh:

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                    #10
                    Can not believe the improvement guys i was yesterday thinking about that archicad has MEP inside architecture programme :hide:and now i saw autodesk combined Architecture with MEP this absolute amazing abd unbelievable now there is no such excuses.
                    Dreams come true
                    Last edited by ahmed_hassan; March 28, 2012, 11:42 AM.

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