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Is the Model Colaboration Modue just trash?

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    Is the Model Colaboration Modue just trash?

    So - with the bestowing of additional modules with the recent transition from BIM360 to Autodesk Collaborate Pro - I had a glimmer of hope that Clash Detection/Management was suddenly going to be a lot easier. That I wasn't going to need to have people export NWC models and bring them into Navisworks and run preset Selection Set-based Clash Tests, and then use BIMTrack to group clashes and assign issues to consultants....

    but... it seems like there is no way to pre-filter what clashes the module runs... nor any real way to control how the clashes get grouped.... as a result, i have a project that says it has nearly 100K clashes... but as i start investigating, it seems the vast majority of them are non-clashes I wouldn't have even had to look in Navisworks... things like pipe's and beams passing through walls.

    So I guess I am asking - am I missing something? or does the Model Coordination module just downright suck?

    #2
    Originally posted by nharburger View Post
    So - with the bestowing of additional modules with the recent transition from BIM360 to Autodesk Collaborate Pro - I had a glimmer of hope that Clash Detection/Management was suddenly going to be a lot easier. That I wasn't going to need to have people export NWC models and bring them into Navisworks and run preset Selection Set-based Clash Tests, and then use BIMTrack to group clashes and assign issues to consultants....

    but... it seems like there is no way to pre-filter what clashes the module runs... nor any real way to control how the clashes get grouped.... as a result, i have a project that says it has nearly 100K clashes... but as i start investigating, it seems the vast majority of them are non-clashes I wouldn't have even had to look in Navisworks... things like pipe's and beams passing through walls.

    So I guess I am asking - am I missing something? or does the Model Coordination module just downright suck?
    Opinions are going to vary widely/wildly on this, so ill phase my thoughts... carefully.

    Ive been using Navisworks since 2006, (back when it was still the Navisworks Jetstream product (pre Autodesk)). Its long since been the Gold Standard 9for me) for file aggregation and 3D Coordination.

    I started testing Glue, when it was Horizontal Glue (the year before it was released).

    Glue (or whatever the hell they are calling it now) wasnt then, hasnt ever been, and isnt now, up to par with all of the functionality of Navisworks. Not even close. Now, some people say that *its close* or *its good enough* but then i ask about their actual process of USING either software, and their process is such **** that it wouldnt suffice for what we want to see done on a job, regardless. A lot of it stems from the specifics in your workflow and process, of course. It wont surprise you that i am super opinionated about those processes, as well. But the exporting of NWC's to break models in to specific subsets is of immense value, not specifically for setting up Clash Tests and Groups (opinions will vary on that) but as a general workflow enhancer, because not all parts of all models need to be treated or seen equally.

    Our architectural model alone, gets exported as up to 15 different NWC's. Exporting on a schedule and auto exporting is a thing. The fact that coordination software made it so you can "just append an entire damn model" hasnt (imvho) made the process better, its made it worse. People have gotten lazier because of it, as they dont want to discuss or refine their process, anymore. They just want to toss their ten pound bag of trash on the wall, and let the contractor deal with it.

    All of the teams we partner with for real 3D Coordination still 100% use Navis. Now, they may then AUGMENT their process using the BIM360 Coordination module, SIMPLY to make the navis files more distributable or viewable from remote locations, but thats about it.

    Now, thats a totally different convo from tracking the issues, themselves.

    We still use BIMTrack, internally. But thats also because a lot of our work on issue tracking and coordination has to do with projects that arent originating on BIM360 design models, so- while the BIM360 Issue Tracking is nice- its not as convenient, given our particular workflow (but i would grant you that we are a bit unique in that sense).

    Im neither here nor there on BIM360 issues, but i will say: The added complexity year after year of navigating the hubs/accounts/projects, isnt really encouraging me to want to move to BIM360 Issues, even though i pay extra for BIMTrack.
    Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
    @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

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      #3
      Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
      ...Im neither here nor there on BIM360 issues, but i will say: The added complexity year after year of navigating the hubs/accounts/projects, isnt really encouraging me to want to move to BIM360 Issues, even though i pay extra for BIMTrack.
      Ok - so I'm not crazy.
      The one workflow I have not looked into is if the BIM360/Model Coordination plugins for Navisworks allow you to push navisworks clashes into BIM360 Issues like you can with BIMTrack.

      If it works, you could...
      • run the clash tests in Navisworks
      • filter, review, organize clashes in Navisworks
      • push the clashes that are actually issues to BIM360/Collaborate Pro,
      • assign issues to BIM360 Team members
      • using Revit Plugins, team members can review/see/fix clashes assigned to them via BIM360/Collaborate Pro.


      Even if the actual interface happened to be a bit clunkier... were this workflow doable using BIM360/Collaborate Pro - I probably would opt for it in lieu of BIMTrack

      But as far as i can tell, it seems only clashes that have been generated/identified via the Model Coordination Module can be turned into issues recognized by the revit plugin.

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        #4
        The fact that coordination software made it so you can "just append an entire damn model" hasnt (imvho) made the process better, its made it worse.
        but even in the Model coordination module of BIM 360, you shouldn't just "throw the whole model" over to clash. The Model Coordination module process is set up to take specific 3D views, set up as Published Model "Sets" in Revit, to send over to specific "coordination spaces" in Model Coordination. If you have a series of 3D views already set up to "break a model up" for Navisworks, you could publish this same set out to BIM 360, and then create 'Coordination Spaces' within the Model Coordination Module to look at specific parts. For example you could have coordination space called "Level 1 Mech" that specifically watches for only 3D models you have designated for that space. when a new version of a model for that space gets published, the "clash engine" is automatically initiated, and the new clashes shown, and the 'resolved clashes' get removed from the list.

        my thought on all this is that MC is more of a 'Design Level' clash, while Navisworks is more a 'Construction-level' clash. As an Architect, using Model Coordination with coordination spaces, and specific 3D models as "sets" from Revit, I could much more easily understand how my design decisions are impacting all of the other disciplines in the model, without having to wait for everyone to republish NW models and for "someone else" to run the report.

        With all that being said, we know there's a lot of work still to be done with Model Coordination... I'm personally looking forward to many of the things I know are planned, and can't wait until we get more of them out to all of you.
        Scott D Davis
        Sr. AEC Technical Specialist
        Autodesk, Inc.
        http://bit.ly/aboutsdd

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Scott D Davis View Post
          but even in the Model coordination module of BIM 360, you shouldn't just "throw the whole model" over to clash. The Model Coordination module process is set up to take specific 3D views, set up as Published Model "Sets" in Revit, to send over to specific "coordination spaces" in Model Coordination. If you have a series of 3D views already set up to "break a model up" for Navisworks, you could publish this same set out to BIM 360, and then create 'Coordination Spaces' within the Model Coordination Module to look at specific parts. For example you could have coordination space called "Level 1 Mech" that specifically watches for only 3D models you have designated for that space. when a new version of a model for that space gets published, the "clash engine" is automatically initiated, and the new clashes shown, and the 'resolved clashes' get removed from the list.
          Yeah. Completely agreed.

          We just hear from SO MANY PEOPLE that "oh nice, navis takes revit files now, we dont have to do ****." And i die inside.
          Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
          @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Scott D Davis View Post
            ...we know there's a lot of work still to be done with Model Coordination... I'm personally looking forward to many of the things I know are planned, and can't wait until we get more of them out to all of you.
            Hey Scott - Than you for weighing in. I could see how setting up coordination view sets to be published could make this a little better. And its good to hear their is a robust roadmap for development of the Model Coordination Module. Can you share anything about the features that are being worked on? Does The Model Coordination module have a roadmap link/site like other Autodesk Software has?

            I do hope the ability to push active Navisworks clashes out to BIM360 Issues is in the works (if it does not already exist) as the selection sets in Navisworks are a lot easier to set up than Revit View Templates as far as limiting pipe to ones over a certain diameter... and that sort of thing.

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