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    Justifying Curtain Wall from Exterior face

    My apologies for hijacking this thread.
    I have split it off and summarized in a new thread.
    I started with this:
    My gripe is Curtain Walls. They are ALWAYS defined as Centerline. You can't even change their justification.
    And we will NEVER layout a Curtain Wall by it's Center. It will ALWAYS be from the Exterior face.
    Right now we are trying to create some standard Curtain Wall Types/Mullions/Panels using our standard 4" from Exterior Face to face of glass.
    As far as I know, that's not possible.

    Martijn teased me with this:
    Yeah you can... Would be hijacking this thread to explain this all (man, I so need to finish that Curtain Wall blogpost...) but you can.

    And then Steve added this:
    The curtain wall is really "empty", just a host for panels, grids and mullions. There is no justification because it's just a host. Where each panel/grid/mullion lands on the host is defined inside their properties. The stock curtain wall types were made with the assumption that center line is sufficient. Nothing to prevent you from using a different assumption. Change the offset values for the mullion and panels you use.

    Perhaps the moderators can split this thread out into it's own?


    Perhaps I'm dense, but I don't see any way to adjust the offsets.
    When I place a CurtainWall, the Location Line: on the Options Bar is set to Wall Centerline and cannot be changed.
    I cannot edit a Mullion Profile other than giving it a size and specifying left and right offset.
    I can set the Panel Offset, but (and hopefully this is where I'm missing something) that Offset value is from the Wall Location. Which - full circle here - is set to Wall Centerline.
    Our office standard is that the face of glass is 3 5/8" from the exterior face of the wall in which the CurtainWall is embeded.
    If the Curtainwall is embeded in a 10" thick wall, the offset from the center is different than if it's in a 16" thick wall.
    Dave Plumb
    BWBR Architects; St Paul, MN

    CADsplaining: When a BIM rookie tells you how you should have done something.

    #2
    Im sure Martin will do a more complex and in depth write up, but since im slammed for time:

    You CAN adjust it... when you make the Profiles for your Curtain Walls.

    Ours are justified to the exterior face of the snap cap.
    Aaron "selfish AND petulant" Maller |P A R A L L A X T E A M | Practice Technology Implementation
    @Web | @Twitter | @LinkedIn | @Email

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by DaveP View Post
      My apologies for hijacking this thread.
      I have split it off and summarized in a new thread.
      I started with this:
      My gripe is Curtain Walls. They are ALWAYS defined as Centerline. You can't even change their justification.
      And we will NEVER layout a Curtain Wall by it's Center. It will ALWAYS be from the Exterior face.
      Right now we are trying to create some standard Curtain Wall Types/Mullions/Panels using our standard 4" from Exterior Face to face of glass.
      As far as I know, that's not possible.

      Martijn teased me with this:
      Yeah you can... Would be hijacking this thread to explain this all (man, I so need to finish that Curtain Wall blogpost...) but you can.

      And then Steve added this:
      The curtain wall is really "empty", just a host for panels, grids and mullions. There is no justification because it's just a host. Where each panel/grid/mullion lands on the host is defined inside their properties. The stock curtain wall types were made with the assumption that center line is sufficient. Nothing to prevent you from using a different assumption. Change the offset values for the mullion and panels you use.

      Perhaps the moderators can split this thread out into it's own?


      Perhaps I'm dense, but I don't see any way to adjust the offsets.
      When I place a CurtainWall, the Location Line: on the Options Bar is set to Wall Centerline and cannot be changed.
      I cannot edit a Mullion Profile other than giving it a size and specifying left and right offset.
      I can set the Panel Offset, but (and hopefully this is where I'm missing something) that Offset value is from the Wall Location. Which - full circle here - is set to Wall Centerline.
      Our office standard is that the face of glass is 3 5/8" from the exterior face of the wall in which the CurtainWall is embeded.
      If the Curtainwall is embeded in a 10" thick wall, the offset from the center is different than if it's in a 16" thick wall.
      where to start? Firstly, I've never had any problem with the location of the curtain wall center line. It doesn't mean anything to me. I manipulate the exterior and interior face dimensions from face of curtain panels (glass) or face of building or grid with custom mullion profiles and by offsetting (or not) the curtain panels. When you embed a curtain wall in a wall, you're right, it shouldn't be to the cl of the wall. But, that's one of Revit's many idiosyncracies. Just move it where you want it to be. Frankly I don't embed curtain walls anymore as I create them in separate .rvt files and link them into the main model. Easier to move around related to the building.

      And just a nit pick, if you are talking about real curtain wall, 95% of the time the important dimension for us curtain wall guys is grid to INSIDE face of curtain wall frame. Curtain walls have face caps and pressure plates that are not installed until the glass is set so the basic frames are installed using a grid to inside face dimension. Ironworkers or glaziers don't like math
      I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

      Comment


        #4
        Here's the stock Storefront Curtain Wall family modified so the the pick points to place the curtain wall are set out 4" from the face of glass. This means that when I pick on the face of a host wall or reference the face of glass will be inset 4". Make sense? Fwiw, met a couple guys that just do cw design and they use face of glazing as their point of reference.
        Attached Files
        Steve_Stafford
        Mr. Revit OpEd
        Last edited by Steve_Stafford; September 15, 2011, 08:27 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
          Im sure Martin will do a more complex and in depth write up, but since im slammed for time:
          Well, since you asked for it:

          The placement of Curtain Wall Mullions and Panels is (as in all families) defined by the refplanes defining the origin. The OOTB Mullion is placed centered to the refplane crosshair. The OOTB panel is created with the outside of the panel aligned to the horizontal refplane.

          How do you adjust this? Well, you can't for the OOTB Mullions and Panels.
          But you CAN create custom ones with a (parametric) offset to the refplane defining origin.

          I'll leave it at that for now. There's a blogpost coming but I also have work to do (and a birthday to celebrate...:beer. O, and I need to write up the PotM nominees...
          Martijn de Riet
          Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
          MdR Advies
          Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Steve_Stafford View Post
            Fwiw, met a couple guys that just do cw design and they use face of glazing as their point of reference.
            that's generally the case for curtain wall with SSG (structural silicone glazed) verticals and/or horizontals. It doesn't really matter where the point of reference is as long as the docs communicate that fact. The first question I have to ask on most projects I do is "where are your dimensions to and from?"...
            I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by mdradvies View Post
              The OOTB panel is created with the outside of the panel aligned to the horizontal refplane.
              not true, the OOTB curtain panel is created with a 1 1/4" offset from cl of curtain wall to cl of panel. The horizontal ref plane is 1 3/4" from the outside of the curtain panel...
              I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Dave Jones View Post
                not true, the OOTB curtain panel is created with a 1 1/4" offset from cl of curtain wall to cl of panel. The horizontal ref plane is 1 3/4" from the outside of the curtain panel...
                You are totally right... Had to open a OOTB template file. I have a CW in my template that's called "OOTB CW" with only a frame and Glazed Panel. But I see now I already adjusted the panel offset and thickness. Sorry!
                Either way, point being: this placement is hardcoded and cannot be scheduled (which always bugged me...)
                Martijn de Riet
                Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
                MdR Advies
                Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mdradvies View Post
                  You are totally right... Had to open a OOTB template file. I have a CW in my template that's called "OOTB CW" with only a frame and Glazed Panel. But I see now I already adjusted the panel offset and thickness. Sorry!
                  Either way, point being: this placement is hardcoded and cannot be scheduled (which always bugged me...)
                  2315 posts and you make one slight error. Nothing to be sorry about Just out of curiosity why would anyone need to schedule a face of glass to inside or outside face of curtain wall dimension?
                  I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dave Jones View Post
                    2315 posts and you make one slight error. Nothing to be sorry about Just out of curiosity why would anyone need to schedule a face of glass to inside or outside face of curtain wall dimension?
                    Well, I'm sure I've made more then just one mistake...

                    About the schedules:
                    My panels and mullions have their origin on the inside so that they can be aligned and locked to the support structure on the inside. But it happens a lot that the depth of the mullion changes so that the offset from the inside of the panel should also change. Since this cannot be automated (there's no way tot tie parameters from panels and mullions to the CW itself as far as I know) I have come up with a system in which panels and mullions are scheduled and sorted on the typemark of the CW. I can check whether the mullion size and offset of the panel are the same. (again, need to finish the blog posts but I'm just swamped with work)
                    Martijn de Riet
                    Professional Revit Consultant | Revit API Developer
                    MdR Advies
                    Planta1 Revit Online Consulting

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