Would you trust BIM models ?

[Fierna91]

Hey all,

We are conducting a study at Clemson University to determine the factors that affect user confidence in BIM models. We would really love your input

if you would like to take part please message me directly for more details

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RSC2258

We would appreciate it if you could promote the survey via blog/social.

Thanks!
Neeharika.

[snowyweston]

We are a forum that does not entertain like cross-thread posting and cold-call questionnaires.

Please respect as much.

[Fierna91]

I didnt know about the cross-posting. Thank You!

[DaveP]

I'll take partial credit for that cross-post.
In case people aren't aware, the first 5 posts someone make must be approved by a moderator (helps us cut down the spam)
I saw that this was posted in both General and MEP and debated deleting the MEP version.
But then I thought it might be interesting for you to see if there was a difference.
Is an Architectural model trusted more than an HVAC or Lighting model?

[Dave Jones]

I'll take partial credit for that cross-post.
In case people aren't aware, the first 5 posts someone make must be approved by a moderator (helps us cut down the spam)
I saw that this was posted in both General and MEP and debated deleting the MEP version.
But then I thought it might be interesting for you to see if there was a difference.
Is an Architectural model trusted more than an HVAC or Lighting model?

what's the definition of "trust"? Trust a model with my life? Don't think so. Trust a model to convey design intent? Yeah, that works until someone misinterprets the model somehow. Trust a model to get a building built sort of like the design intent? A bit more OK. Personally I think that it's a silly question and personally I don't trust anyone's model but my own. But then that's probably just a result of my being bitten on the a** so many times over the years.

Here's a little real time experience to add to the conversation: I worked on a major project by a well known respected Architect. I received a R2016 Arch Revit model and a 100%DD set of Architectural drawings. Upon review the drawings did not match the model. I tried to explain to my customer (a subcontractor) that what I was seeing was virtually impossible, that the drawings were (should be) a product of the model. Long story short the Architect produced a Revit model then did the drawings in AutoCAD. Now what do you trust? Yikes!!

[UKN]

Long story short the Architect produced a Revit model then did the drawings in AutoCAD. Now what do you trust? Yikes!!

Wowsa! I can't even begin to imagine the conversation when a company decides that that's a good way to do project delivery. That's the craziest thing I've heard all year(!)

[Twiceroadsfool]

It happens much more than you would think. Im potentially getting involved on a project right now because all of the details are manually drafted and not from the LIVE model... And they dont coordinate.

As for the question: Its vague, and in a silly way. People talking about *trusting the model* is all hype, until you get to a more important question: What was the CONTRACT REQUIREMENT? If the model isnt one of the official Contract Documents, "trusting it" to be correct is a quick way to put yourself out of business, full stop. Not only that, but simply stating "The model has to be turned over as a deliverable" doesnt make it a contract document either.

Stipulating in an RFP and in a contract that 2D deliverables must be: A product of the model, established and maintained by and from the live model, must be 100% accurate to the live model, and must not be rounded/altered/overridden in any way that causes a conflict between the 3D model and the 2D documents, THEN you can talk about trusting a model.

Frankly, its not that outlandish, and i know SOME firms that work that way all of the time. But a large number are too lazy or under-performing that they dont care to do it correctly, as they are still incorrectly convinced that its harder.

BTW, since ive worked with some GREAT Clemson Grads, feel free to reach out offline and ill be happy to talk at length about this. I might even get the former Clemson-ites involved. =)

[Darius]

Trusting a model is more of a question of trusting the integrity of the firm or individuals that you are working with and there skill level with a software. Then trusting a Model, the model is only as good as those who create it.

[DavidLarson]

I trust the displayed dimensions in my model because I haven't taught anybody else how to edit dimensions without leaving a visible clue that the dimension has been edited. Unless I know for certain the model was built by a single individual who is skilled I do not trust the model to be done correctly. Too many people can't be bothered to pay attention to what they're doing to make sure that things are even placed on the correct level let alone be the correct item.

[josephpeel]

Im conducting some surveys too,

Im starting with "Do you trust Drawings?"
and will follow up my investigations with "Do you trust books?" and "Do you trust photographs?"