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I'm fixing it in CAD so you can model it in Revit

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    I'm fixing it in CAD so you can model it in Revit

    A bit earlier today I heard some swearing coming from across the office and being a curious type I wandered over and asked what was wrong. Another guy in the office was working on a new project that, the last time I heard, was going to be done in Revit. I mentioned this and the answer I got was: "I'm fixing the plans and elevations in CAD so you can model everything in Revit" :banghead: I of course asked - why not just do it all in Revit in the first place? There was some mumbling and something along the lines of "it's faster in CAD"...

    Reason for posting: there are 5 architects in the office, I'm using Revit 99% of the time, one guy knows a little from school, one guy used it at his last job but his current project is in CAD (legacy stuff) - the other two keep talking about how they need to learn it and if they spent more than 10 minutes at a time would be proficient in no time. My question is - how can I start to break the CAD mentality and get people to realize that in the process of modeling in Revit they are saving a ton of time in the long run and that it isn't really 'faster in CAD.' As much as I'd like to I can't uninstall CAD so I'm down to social engineering and psychology.
    Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO


    chad
    BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

    #2
    Have them sit down for dinner with Aaron. He'll straighten them out! :laugh:
    Dan

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      #3
      I have the exact same issue. And on top of it our business manager and Head Architect are all worried about how to bill this new fangled "3D drawings". I have explained numerous times, in many many ways, that if Revit is used properly, and by all, on all possible non legacy projects, in a matter of months everyone would be proficient enough to complete their plans and elevations in 60% of the time if not less. The leftover time can be used to do things that they are so worried about taking too much time, like materials, and renderings. And intheory, the client gets more drawings, presented much better, for the same cost.

      No one listens, when they cannot understand what you are saying. and most people tend to be affraid of change, especially the generation that has evolved from hand drafting. I have decided to quit trying to discuss my point, and just kick out the usual plans and elevations in half the time. Hoping that when they review billing going forward, they wonder why most of our budgeted architectural fees are not being met.

      Let me know if you find a foolproof method of convincing the scared!

      CWetz
      Chris Wetzel
      Draftsman
      Tom Stringer Design Partners
      http://www.tomstringer.com

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by cellophane View Post
        My question is - how can I start to break the CAD mentality and get people to realize that in the process of modeling in Revit they are saving a ton of time in the long run and that it isn't really 'faster in CAD.'
        I found a a simple time trial exercise is enough. Define a set of goals then set your best CAD drafter against your best Reviteer.

        Host the "event" as a deliberate "I'm tired of hearing all the resistance..." attack. You do not need to be diplomatic - not in this scenario - your directors will (or at least should) be accepting of your open challenge - it is, afterall, in the interests of productivity and profit.

        It needn't be anything fancy* - just a simple single storey building, some doors and windows and a couple of internal rooms. Ask for a plan, a roof plan, four basic elevations, one shaded elevation, a basic (room?) schedule, and a exterior perspective (rendered)

        Then set the stopwatch off and watch as the CAD drafter is left behind.

        *although a complicated roof shape always throws a nice spanner in the works when elevations need projecting!

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          #5
          I think a good addon to that challenge will be "the client needs same interesting changes " (this is where real life jump in)

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            #6
            Originally posted by snowyweston View Post
            I found a a simple time trial exercise is enough. Define a set of goals then set your best CAD drafter against your best Reviteer.
            I like it! Although it would be hard for me to compete against myself

            The issue seems to be that everyone knows it's better they just keep saying "I'll use it next time" or something along those lines :crazy: The CAD inertia is pretty heavy at times.
            Revit for newbies - A starting point for RFO


            chad
            BEER: Better, Efficient, Elegant, Repeatable.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by cellophane View Post
              I like it! Although it would be hard for me to compete against myself
              Then offer to do it with your weaker hand - seriously, you will still win.

              Originally posted by cellophane View Post
              The issue seems to be that everyone knows it's better they just keep saying "I'll use it next time" or something along those lines :crazy: The CAD inertia is pretty heavy at times.
              I totally get what you mean. Totally. And it's times like this I turn ugly, and play their game - which yes, is petty, but it takes two to tango.

              So carry on as you are, and just like CWetz says, start showing them up - by either eclipsing their output 10 fold, or by putting them (publicly) to task when their reticence impacts on your productivity directly.

              Or better yet, initiate your directors to express curiosity in staff performance and begin to grade your team - log their efficiency - their skills - and draw conclusions for your directors.

              It's certainly not an attitude or idea I live by, but your colleagues are not your friends. Even if they are, in a work environment "friendship" shouldn't count for anything (or conversly, "everything" - since friends support one another - but the attitudes your describing don't resonate with tones of friendship to me) and if they are professional, they should accept the critique.

              Of course, you could go in softly-softly, and angle via your directors an increased training programme - I don't know how it is in America, but CPD is a requirement of all qualified professionals in the UK.

              Or you could engineer your company standards/workflow documents to stipulate Revit as a must on all new work - but do you have the licenses/hardware to support that? If you do, then you could point to an ROI (if you have one) and report to your directors the company is not delivering on the forecasted/projected returns because of half-arsed uptake in the workforce. They (the directors) spent the money, but are not seeing value. Would they see profit with new, more enthusiastic staff*? Is it on you to champion that side of Revit adoption? If so, it'll be on you to justify the outlays and it's on you to argue for amore serious commitment from upper management to push those dragging their feet - or be rid of them. Tough decisions - but one's that need to be made.



              *Note : I would not want to be my own boss.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by snowyweston View Post
                *Note : I would not want to be my own boss.
                yeah, that would be me, my own boss that is. I can totally relate to the "AutoCAD is faster, so I'm going over there to do this" mentality because I had it for the first 1 1/2 years I was using Revit. I'm the only one here so I don't have to worry about what others think about my business plan or how I get things done. I can tell you this: it was (is) a long and excruciating road to get to where I am now with Revit and I work at it 7 days a week mostly 12+ hours a day and have spent literally thousands of dollars on training. I can't imagine someone who is hourly or monthly employed taking Revit by the horns because of the "someday it will be faster" argument. Human nature, especially humans whom are employed, is to take the road of least resistance. The only way to solve the problem (maybe) is to have someone with the Power to take away the easy road. That takes foresight, a gamble of a lot of investment in software, labor time, missed schedules, etc. It's not something to be taken lightly and shouldn't be taken because of a "just because we can do it, why can't you?" attitude. Just my $0.02 USD
                Last edited by Dave Jones; June 7, 2012, 01:21 AM.
                I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by cwetzel View Post
                  Let me know if you find a foolproof method of convincing the scared!
                  Not always fool proof, but a good way to think about it is: "What if we DON'T change...what if we continue to use a 2D drawing method rather than a BIM method?"

                  With the momentum that BIM has, most will realize that staying with a 2D CAD based approach will render the firm/practice irrelevant and not able to compete in the very near future. Not having a job, or worse yet, having the firm/practice close due to not being able to compete is usually good motivation.
                  Scott D Davis
                  Sr. AEC Technical Specialist
                  Autodesk, Inc.
                  http://bit.ly/aboutsdd

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Scott D Davis View Post
                    Not always fool proof, but a good way to think about it is: "What if we DON'T change...what if we continue to use a 2D drawing method rather than a BIM method?"

                    With the momentum that BIM has, most will realize that staying with a 2D CAD based approach will render the firm/practice irrelevant and not able to compete in the very near future. Not having a job, or worse yet, having the firm/practice close due to not being able to compete is usually good motivation.
                    I guess I'm in a downer mood tonight With the momentum of BIM, most employers stick their toe in the water and yelp "it's cold". I now deal with Architects, General Contractors, subcontractors, and suppliers every day who are BIM savvy. Not...most of them don't know BIM from the kitchen sink. Not that I'm an expert mind you but the "momentum of BIM" is just buzzwords AFAIC...Most of those that I deal with in the construction industry are still in the 1980's as far as technology is concerned. It takes FORWARD thinking plus a huge expenditure to enable real BIM. Tell me it's not true.
                    I'm retired, if you don't like it, go around!

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