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Thread: Separate Architectural and Structural?

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    Separate Architectural and Structural?

    Let's assume one has the staff all under one roof. I'm starting to lean towards a single model approach... any reasons not to do this?

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    Administrator Gordon Price's Avatar
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    I think you will find the main reason not to is that the Architectural model changes at a MUCH faster rate than the Structural model does. Even under one roof, the Arch model can change daily, but Structural uses a weekly Arch model to reference. However, if your in-house process is so well integrated that the daily, nay, hourly changes in the Architectural model don't drive the Structural Engineers nuts, then perhaps the single model would lead to the real time collaboration that I REALLY hope is in the future somewhere.
    I can also see separated models in SD, shared model in CD, and a transition somewhere in DD that is project dependent, being a viable option.

    Gordon

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    I had the staff for A and S under one roof once... Ask yourself a REALLY important question: Do they play nice together?

    If not, keep the models seperate.

    Also, if you go single model approach, keep in mind that certain things are in most Structural templates that arent in most archtiecturals, depending on when they were created (rebar types, etc). A quick transfer project standards can get it all back in.

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    Junior Member Dandharma's Avatar
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    I have A & S in their own models, although I have taken a large risk in having them linking live reference models.

    I also encourage them to be aware of communication and also keep sharp instruments away from coordination meetings.

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    The Moderator with No Imagination MPwuzhere's Avatar
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    Past few years we have been working separate....and are getting ready for the single model approach....

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    Moderator LeanneZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandharma View Post
    I have A & S in their own models, although I have taken a large risk in having them linking live reference models.
    Why do you say it's a "large risk" in linking live models? It's what we do all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dandharma View Post
    I also encourage them to be aware of communication and also keep sharp instruments away from coordination meetings.
    LOL!

    I've worked for two firms using Revit. Both had in-house Architects and Structural Engineers. The *very* first project I worked on in Revit, a branch bank, we began the project combined. It quickly became more than any of us could handle and we broke it into separate Architecutral and Structural models and continued to work that way for any following projects.

    Where I work now, we have much larger scale projects. Not only do we have separate Architectural and Structural models, the architects have even broken our their interiors into it's own model(s).

    Everything links back in. Everything is updated each time you get into the model (and in between when a reload latest is required.) I don't have to wait a week to get an updated model from an architect; I have it immediately.

    We prefer a separate Structural model because we need to export to analysis programs and back in. And I'd rather not have an architect accidentally grab all my columns and nudge them 4 127/256". If the columns get accidentally nudged, we know it was us, the engineers that did it. When I need a family, I don't want to have sort through all the architectural stuff that I just don't need. I think working with separate models also facilitates easier model management. As an engineer, I know I don't need windows, doors and furniture in my model. When I purge I know I can get rid of those things without questioning an architect, "Were you going to use that, later?" Also, for those unfamiliar or uncomfortable with worksets, you can work in your architectural group in your workshared architectural model without the need to create worksets for all the disciplines.

    We just find it simpler and cleaner to keep all disciplines in their separate models and link everything together.
    MARIA1993 likes this.

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    Currently wrapping up a project where we ran architectural and structural in a single model. I was surprised how smoothly it actually went. It was industrial/process so the architectural was fairly light.

    Yes you should already have a good working relationship and it requires a greater level of respect for boundaries and responsibilities, just because I can move that column does not mean I should. The discipline parameter for views works wells to keep the disciplines and symbology seperate, however be aware of which categories appear in both, structural did get annoyed when they would see certain generic families showing on their framing plans (we fixed that with an A_Elements workset). Only other caution I can think of off hand is whether you intend to export out to a structural calc program like RISA - it may require a very clean model.

    Overall I believe we had a more successful project combining the disciplines. Now will I carry that to include Arch, Struct, Mech, and Elec (we have all in house)? Nope. However I am starting to consider combining arch and elec in a single model, I believe it could help a lot of the hosting problems they run into. Any thoughts on that?

    (also, a previous post of mine reiterating the same thoughts just earlier in the process http://www.revitforum.org/architectu...l.html#post860 )

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    Senior Member Ning Zhou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot Black View Post
    However I am starting to consider combining arch and elec in a single model, I believe it could help a lot of the hosting problems they run into. Any thoughts on that?
    single model will be good if some elec. families are wall / ceiling based instead of face based.

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    Moderator Drew's Avatar
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    We are currently in the middle of a single model project, with A & S. going really well.
    The trick is to clearly out line the roles and expectations of all parties prior to any modelling.
    The second trick is communication. We use bluestreak and team viewer ( for screen sharing). All is working very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanneZ View Post
    Why do you say it's a "large risk" in linking live models? It's what we do all the time.



    It quickly became more than any of us could handle and we broke it into separate Architecutral and Structural models and continued to work that way for any following projects.

    .

    Hello,

    How do you separate it in two projects?
    Until now I have a Central Model with the structural and architectural elements.

    Thank you!

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