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Thread: Coarse,Medium and Fine

  1. #21
    Senior Member Andres Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjosiah View Post
    ... i've never been able to wrap my head around metric scales, as much as i've tried. I've only worked on one metric project in my career. Maybe if i had a few under my belt, it would stick.
    Me is the opposite Imperial measurements and scales gives me headaches, I've worked in a few projects with companies based on USA and Canada and frankly thanks to Revit functionality which allows to enter values in Imperial or Metric being automatically converted was a huge life saver to me!

  2. #22
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjosiah View Post
    Well, this is a first. I pretty much agree with everything that Aaron has posted to date, but on this i am in complete agreement with Scourdx.
    First... this is awesome! People are going to disagree all the time, it isnt a big deal.

    I fail to see any upside to showing all wall layers at an 1/8" scale or coarser drawing. The individual layers (common edges) by and large cannot be discerned from the wall cut, with the most prolific example being 5/8"gyp over stud. Adding additional layers makes it an even muddier mess.
    So, a few clarifications have to be made here:

    1. The "bar that is set" isnt "is there an upside to showing it." Scourdx inferred (in posts 5 and 7) that having the information there was actually showing WRONG information, and that it can lead to being sued. My position is that it simply isnt the case, because the information isnt more wrong, just because its showing up.

    2. Its true that on printed paper, you cant discern the layers of a thin wall. But that doesnt mean there isnt a value in adding them, or that they make the drawings less clear. For instance: If i poche all the walls black solid fill, is the drawing less clear? Of course not, because the fill doesnt bleed outside of the wall. There is just "more stuff" showing up inside the wall, for the times when you CAN discern the lines (PDF, online readers, etc, where lineweights can be turned off in a single click, like Bluebeam). If its not adding value, you simply dont leverage it. I still dont see where "mistakes" are present in the drawings, or how it is going to get me sued, unless my drawings are entirely faked, and my plan details dont match my modeled walls.

    We'll tag the walls on our coarse mode 1/8" plans, which direct the contractor to the partition type details.
    This has come up in a few peoples responses in this thread, so im a bit confused: Obviously i also TAG the partitions, in the 1/8" plans. I dont know why there is an assumption that because im showing all the wall layers, i wouldnt tag the walls. Thats just a strange assumption. And i get that *when the walls are tagged we dont NEED to show all the layers." Its never been about that.

    I've never had anything built wrong because i didn't show the all the layers on those overalls.
    Respectfully (again), that isnt the bar that was set. But if it was: I have a job right now where things almost got built wrong in a NUMBER of places, because the layers werent shown. Mind you, it wasnt a Revit Project, but its still the same issue. To me, showing the layers isnt about using the layers AS the communication tool to tell them how the wall gets built (the tags and wall types do that), but it also confirms that the wall type is drawn as tagged. In CAD, this is a big deal. And in Revit (where firms DRAFT their plan details (a lot)) this is still a big deal, sorry to say.

    BTW, ive never had anything built wrong because the layers WERE showing, either.

    I'll take drawing legibility over the extra layers, IMHO unnecessary information, any day.
    Again, the assumption that its a zero sum game, and that we are deciding between "extra layers showing in the wall" and "drawing legibility," which is a very far stretch. I can find plenty of plans that are completely difficult to read, even with no wall layers shown, and i can find plenty of plans with all wall layers shown, that are very legible.

    General rule of thumb that has served me well for years is any drawing up to 1/8" or 3/16" scale is Coarse, 1/4" to 1" is Medium, and details at 1-1/2" to full are Fine.
    And again, this will come down to how your content is built. A lot of folks use Revit's LOD for scales, like this. It isnt right or wrong, its just one method of using Revit's LOD's. For me, one issue is that System Objects (Walls, ceilings, roofs, floors) are treated differently than components, where components have to have these things set up in the families, which (with a lot of content builders) leads to redundant geometry, and a large mess.

    In my Template, and for offices i train, the rule is:

    Medium is used for all construction documents. It doesnt ever HURT you to move things to fine, but it isnt needed. Even for Plan Details and the like. Some people DO move it to Fine, but it doesnt have a downside. It just isnt a requirement.

    Fine turns on the *glitz* in some components, that are made for Viz and renderings. (Clocks get numbers and hands, keyboards get keys, chairs get more detail, equipment gets buttons, and so on).

    Coarse makes things notably and visibly less detailed (which would affect drawings) but nothing critical disappears. Louver blades vanish, and are replaced with a single monolithic object. (Louvers are one of the few components i do redundant geometry replacement in, because Louvers can get HEAVY). At Coarse, some hardware components and things may vanish as well, depending on the library.

    Coarse (in my implementation) was originally meant to be "make my computer haul ass" mode, back when GPU was a limiting factor. More and more, i dont even use it. Coarse could disappear tomorrow, and i wouldnt notice, with the exception of Framing Plans and sections, where the traditional graphics still rely on that *look.*
    Last edited by Twiceroadsfool; April 12th, 2019 at 01:54 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member biff's Avatar
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    in a residential sense my default is the only times i would use coarse now would be presentation/conceptual/stakeholder/planning applications. The 'look' as Aaron says. And Medium and fine for construction and trade. Obviously exceptions come up in areas. (Often see poorly built families and visibilties set wrong in this regard). With the age of grunt even in laptops now am i right in saying that could apply for commercial now? Or is it a strain in large commercial to show medium/fine everywhere?

  4. #24
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Coarse barely saves any computing power (of any) over Medium and Fine. It barely helps (if at all) on large projects. As far as im concerned, the strain on a computer isnt even a consideration.

    If thats the issue, we start Closing/unloading worksets.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Coarse barely saves any computing power (of any) over Medium and Fine. It barely helps (if at all) on large projects. As far as im concerned, the strain on a computer isnt even a consideration.

    If thats the issue, we start Closing/unloading worksets.
    I guess you have answered my main question. I think that most residential draftppl don't exclusively use Coarse to make it easier for the framer.
    Thanks!

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