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Thread: Architectural project with structural elements

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    Architectural project with structural elements

    Hello all,

    > I would like to know which is the correct process with which we start to modelise an architectural project with structural elements. So we have architectural and structural columns / walls / floors etc.

    For example for the walls/ floors does it better to keep separate the architectural from structural? (Until now I do a wall with multiple layers )

    > If I also want to have separate the architectural and structural model what I should do? Do I need to have them separated from the start or can I use the copy monitor for the stuctural model?

    Thank you in advance!

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    Forum Addict Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    I have all my walls, floors and roofs as separate layers, not just separating the structural from the architectural, but every layer is a different wall (most of the time). This gives you much more control over all the elements.

    I usually start with modelling the structural stuff as well, because the structural people need to know where the architects wants the walls and columns. At some point I remove my structural stuff and link in the structural model. This of course gives you a limited control over the structure, but in the end you are not the 'owner' of the structure anyway. Everybody just needs to understand that you are not the one that can edit the structure (well, you can, but you shouldn't) and that it may take a while before structural changes will be visible in the architectural model.drawings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Deurloo View Post
    I have all my walls, floors and roofs as separate layers, not just separating the structural from the architectural, but every layer is a different wall (most of the time). This gives you much more control over all the elements.

    I usually start with modelling the structural stuff as well, because the structural people need to know where the architects wants the walls and columns. At some point I remove my structural stuff and link in the structural model. This of course gives you a limited control over the structure, but in the end you are not the 'owner' of the structure anyway. Everybody just needs to understand that you are not the one that can edit the structure (well, you can, but you shouldn't) and that it may take a while before structural changes will be visible in the architectural model.drawings.


    > So do you joined each time the walls together in order to keep your openings (doors/windows etc)?

    > What are you doing in order to have your structural elements in the structural model? I would like to know which process you follow.


    Thank you!
    Last edited by MARIA1993; January 18th, 2019 at 08:14 AM.

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    Forum Addict Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    Yes, if there is an opening I join the walls together.
    The structural model is usually not made by me, but by a 3th party doing the structural calculations and model. So they take my model and use that to build their own. I think they remodel my structure with their own walls and families.

    What you need to take into account is that removing the structural walls from your project will also remove the doors and windows that are in those walls, so you need to think about how you place those upfront, so you don't have to redo all of them at a later stage. Same with wall or face based families.

    If I have a project where I have to model the structure myself I do not make separate models for structure and architecture, that's just to much work and there are no benefits if you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Deurloo View Post

    If I have a project where I have to model the structure myself I do not make separate models for structure and architecture, that's just to much work and there are no benefits if you ask me.

    Thank you for your answer, In this case do you would separate the structural from the architectural wall? So do you create two individual walls one for the concrete and another one for the insulation/finish material?

    Or do you create a single compound wall with both architectural and structural layers?


    Thnak you in advance!

  6.    #6
    Forum Addict Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    To quote myself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Deurloo View Post
    I have all my walls, floors and roofs as separate layers, not just separating the structural from the architectural, but every layer is a different wall (most of the time). This gives you much more control over all the elements.

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    Member kamranmirza's Avatar
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    We've always worked with a linked structure model [made by the structural engineer or not].

    Even when we have not yet appointed a structural engineer, we make a sacrificial structural model that we link in. Not too much of an input of extra effort, but a lot of output in terms of discipline, working according to a consistent method, and eventually not much of a hiccup when the engineer is appointed and sends us his structure model to link in.

    And the years ago [or even nowadays] when the engineer didn't work in Revit, etc., we'd link in his IFC format model, from wherever.

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    Senior Member DavidLarson's Avatar
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    Who owns what is always part of the kickoff meeting. Even though I always own the walls the struct guys always model their own out of alignment with mine. I place columns where I think they'll go and then remove mine once struct has placed theirs. Once in a blue moon on odd numbered years when the planets align and my cats aren't jerks they'll be in the same location.

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    In the case of a structural core wall with a 50mm wall liner either side what approach do you take?

    I/we model the structural components as individual walls with, as per above example, the wall finishes either side. Once the structural model is up to speed with ours I change all my structural walls to be 100% transparent and no hatches etc.

    By removing the structural walls I also lose the join condition for the finishes on either side. By modelling it as one wall I have to break it at floors and I still have the structure in my model (which I feel we technically should not as architects). You lose the ability to have nice wall wraps when using 3x wall to make 1x wall.

    Level 3 BIM should solve all this messing with structure in arch models and wall wraps

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    Member kamranmirza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizo View Post
    Level 3 BIM should solve all this messing with structure in arch models and wall wraps
    Please elaborate . . .

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