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Thread: Is there ever a reason to move the Project Base Point while it is "clipped"?

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    Is there ever a reason to move the Project Base Point while it is "clipped"?

    I've been doing a lot of research in the past few days regarding the Project Base Point and Survey Point so that I can ensure that I am using the coordinate systems properly. I've read a lot of posts by Steve Stafford regarding these systems, as he seems to be quite knowledgeable on the subject, but there are still a few things I think I may be misunderstanding.

    Correct me if I am wrong here, but this is how I understand the coordinate systems to function:
    • The "Internal Origin" point of a Revit project is the same exact origin point of the Project Base Point coordinate system. I see the terms used separately, but I don't understand why, unless this is an incorrect statement.
    • The "Internal Origin" point never moves. If, the Project Base Point origin and the internal origin are the same, when the Project Base Point is moved while clipped, the origin point does not move, rather the project moves around it.
    • The x,y,z values referenced on the Project Base Point have no relation to the Project Base Point coordinate system, rather it is referring to the origin of the Survey Point coordinate system. By extension, it is possible to have a Project Base Point that reads 0,0,0 by moving a clipped Survey Point to a Project Base Point that had been unclipped and relocated, possibly miles away from the origin of the Project Base Point coordinate system.
    • The x,y,z values referenced on the Survey Point also reflect the location of the Survey Point coordinate system origin. If a Survey Point is moved while clipped, the value remains 0,0,0 because the origin has moved with the symbol. If a Survey Point is moved while unclipped, the value will change relative to the origin of the coordinate system as the symbol is no longer located at the point of the origin.


    If the internal origin point of the project, and the origin of the Project Base Point coordinate system are the same, and the internal origin point never moves, is there ever any reason to move the Project Base Point while it is clipped? Or, rather, is it just a different way of moving the Survey Point?

    I feel like I'm missing something here, and any corrections would be appreciated.
    HansLammerts and pedroaroso like this.

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    Member kubsix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmere86 View Post
    ..., is there ever any reason to move the Project Base Point while it is clipped? Or, rather, is it just a different way of moving the Survey Point?
    Nope...there is really no reason to move a clipped Project Base Point...it is just a different way to move the Survey Point.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    I don't ever see a reason to move the PBP- clipped or unclipped- at all. The functionality wasn't even there a number of releases ago.

    I do all my coordinates through specify coordinates at a point. No need to ever even turn on visibility of the PBP or survey point.

    Sent from my Phablet. Please excuse typos... and bad ideas.

    Aaron Maller
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    Parallax Team, Inc.
    pedroaroso and Andres Franco like this.

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    I knew a guy that advocated unclipping the PB so the level would read 100 000.

    I personally leave PD and SP in the same spot. Draw my ground level at 100 000. If I need real world coordinates, unclip the SP. Specify coordinates at point. Reclip SP.

    Models all linked via origin to origin.

    Trying to understand what clipping this and unclipping that, acquire this, publish that all hurts my brain. I've been burned once with a multi-link project and linking by shared coordinates. I'll never go back.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    I have the same story, mostly.

    All i use is Specify at a Point, and i dont ever even use Acquire all that much (although i understand why some people do).

    Origin to Origin doesnt work for me, as i need to export from all the models, in Shared Coordinates. I mean, i guess you could do all of that in every single file, and leave them set to OTO if you wanted to. But By Shared Coords doesnt present any issues for me, here.

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    I always use this visual aide when teaching staff how it works. I've had to move all these points before to easily coordinate points with Civil then other coordination processes with Engineering when working on Campus style projects. Then there are the relocate project tools that one can use w/o manually moving these points, but specifying points/coordinates is the easiest way to go.
    Is there ever a reason to move the Project Base Point while it is "clipped"?-sbp-vs-pbp.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    I have the same story, mostly. All i use is Specify at a Point, and i dont ever even use Acquire all that much (although i understand why some people do). Origin to Origin doesnt work for me, as i need to export from all the models, in Shared Coordinates. I mean, i guess you could do all of that in every single file, and leave them set to OTO if you wanted to. But By Shared Coords doesnt present any issues for me, here.
    I guess I have an additional question related to the original topic. My company has a client that requires us to maintain a 0,0,0 origin point for AutoCAD exports, along with some specific requirements for layer naming, lineweights, linetypes, etc. (I use checkstandards a lot, combined with my custom export setup from Revit). I am the only Revit user in my company, and I am essentially a self-taught user, so I do not have many (or any) resources to explain to me the proper methodologies to produce a properly exported .DWG file. The other two drafters employed by my company are AutoCAD veterans that only use AutoCAD for their plans. We are a design-build company, and on a daily basis, I handle about 7 jobs that are currently actually being built, with another 4 or 5 that are in the more conceptual phases. I mention this because I am at a real loss for how they handle these situations, and time is always a limiting factor, as I need to produce plans for the field guys to do their thing, while not holding up the other jobs. The client requires that we provide them with our model space .dwg files in order for them to x-ref the files to exactly where they should be, based off the origin point of their choice in any given job. I experimented with imports, and sharing coordinates based off the .dwg file, and I was able to make it work when the job was small enough to find the true center of the job required, but when the job had a site where the center was pretty much impossible to find, I ended up just importing the job origin to origin and basing my layout from the linked .dwg file based off the origin point of that file. However, on some jobs, the origin points were uncomfortably far from the actual internal origin point in Revit, and I'm not entirely certain in how to proceed on these jobs in order to maintain the 0,0,0 point from the linked .dwg file so that I could do my work in Revit, and export back to .dwg while maintaining the original point of origin for the .dwg file. I am a recent graduate from a drafting program, and I have been working at my company for less than 2 years. I am not an expert drafter, or expert user of AutoCAD/Revit, by any means, but I feel much more comfortable using Revit as opposed to AutoCAD. Is there a way that I can either ensure that I maintain the 0,0,0 point from an AutoCAD drawing within Revit that the client is using, or reset the exported .dwg's from Revit to their specified origin point? I apologize for the formatting on this message, I am not sure how to break this up into the same paragraphs that I had originally set when posting. That would be some helpful information, as well.

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    Senior Member Ning Zhou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cftrevizo View Post
    I always use this visual aide when teaching staff how it works. I've had to move all these points before to easily coordinate points with Civil then other coordination processes with Engineering when working on Campus style projects. Then there are the relocate project tools that one can use w/o manually moving these points, but specifying points/coordinates is the easiest way to go.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SBP vs PBP.PNG 
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    great visual aide! in fact, i tried to create RVT based on your image, 2 questions:
    1) is N and E reversed?
    2) not exactly sure what is the use for Relative? i mean besides SP and PBP
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Is there ever a reason to move the Project Base Point while it is "clipped"?-capture.png  
    Last edited by Ning Zhou; April 3rd, 2018 at 03:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Origin to Origin doesnt work for me, as i need to export from all the models, in Shared Coordinates. I mean, i guess you could do all of that in every single file, and leave them set to OTO if you wanted to. But By Shared Coords doesnt present any issues for me, here.
    Shared coordinates for site usage?

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Yep. On every single project. I use SC even if there isnt a Site Model.
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