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Thread: Is there ever a reason to move the Project Base Point while it is "clipped"?

  1. #11
    Member koolair's Avatar
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    There's an issue the consultants are having on my project. They find that their PBP is thousands of miles away from the survey point that wall hosted M/E elements will not move correctly when changes are made to the linked host (such as linked walls and such). Autodesk advised that they relocate the PBP to 0, 0 for N/S & E/W.

    Now that we all made the change in our own models, we've updated our shared models and I have BIM Probss...

    Is THIS an issue worthy of messing with this coordinate system half way into the project when everything is due for submission/construction/fabrication ASAP?

    Hope to hear some feedback. This is killin me!

  2. #12
    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolair
    ...They find that their PBP is thousands of miles away from the survey point...
    If you're still wrestling with this...

    The SP and PBP can be very far apart, that's fairly normal. It's how far the elements in the model are from Revit's origin that causes problems. For example, I've seen the PBP moved very far from the file origin while unclipped and then the model is built...very far from origin (the mathematical origin of the file). That's bad.

    When we move the PBP (while clipped) all we are really doing is moving the SP (Survey Coordinate) system away from the file's origin.
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  3. #13
    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolair View Post
    There's an issue the consultants are having on my project. They find that their PBP is thousands of miles away from the survey point that wall hosted M/E elements will not move correctly when changes are made to the linked host (such as linked walls and such). Autodesk advised that they relocate the PBP to 0, 0 for N/S & E/W.

    Now that we all made the change in our own models, we've updated our shared models and I have BIM Probss...

    Is THIS an issue worthy of messing with this coordinate system half way into the project when everything is due for submission/construction/fabrication ASAP?

    Hope to hear some feedback. This is killin me!
    Should be alright. I use Specify Coordinates all the time and have even had to make adjustments during the middle of a project somtimes. Just make a sacrificial copy of your model to test it out first if you feel uneasy about it. Leave the PBP and SP where it's at.

    -TZ
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  4. #14
    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    ...dont ever even use Acquire all that much (although i understand why some people do).
    I use it because I was told to by any and all learning material the first years learning the program. But as an MEP guy, we're always linking in the architectural model so that's the standard, so might as well Acquire to get it all lined up in one pass. If we're modeling fresh, then of course it's easy - link in the arch Origin to Origin and roll full steam ahead. It's when other files don't align that makes me start cussing, like when the structural and architectural come in at two entirely different locations, elevation and rotation. Man... just frustrating lol.

    -TZ
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  5. #15
    Member koolair's Avatar
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    What we did as a collaborative group, was...unclip the PBP and move it to an agreed upon grid intersection and floor level.

    Then we re-clipped and grabbed the PBP and edited in the actual N/S & E/W & Elevation parameter values the architect wanted, which was basically 0, 0, and the level 1 geodetic elevation.

    For anyone not following the reasoning...when we started the project, we were supposed to acquire shared coordinates from the architect's shell model. Some of us did so, some of us did it incorrectly. To remedy the problem of being located thousands of miles from the SP and bring all models to heel, we advised some people to unclip the PBP. This allows the PBP to move independently to the desired position. Once clipped, when the location parameters are forced to a certain set of values, the re-location of the PBP moves ALL elements in your model to that point.

    When all models were re-set, I reloaded linked models and voila! There she was. VERY nerve racking. This is the part of Revit I can't stand but gotta admit, I learned a bit more about Revit, so feeling pretty good about that.

  6. #16
    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    I'm glad you've fixed the issue.

    I am puzzled how doing what you described resolved it though.

    The survey point is intended (by design) to be far from the Project Coordinate System because when Acquire Coordinates is used it moves a clipped Survey Point to indicate where the WCS (World Coordinate System) origin of the source file (assuming DWG) is. I'm dealing with a couple projects which have their SP at over 1,000 miles from the project coordinate system origin (PSO).

    As long as the model elements are close to the PSO Revit doesn't mind that the SP is very far away. I do however routinely move the SP unclipped so it is closer to the PBP/PSO, primarily so I don't have to zoom in/out so much in the view(s) they are visible in.

    When I do what you described nothing like what you write happens so some subtle details must be missing from the description. Based on what you wrote I'd expect that the buildings are no longer positioned relative to your survey data correctly. It sounds like they are lined up between each other because they were linked origin to origin to begin with. Exports to DWG using Shared Coordinates would reveal how they don't line up with the original source of survey information.

    Like I wrote at first, I'm glad you've been able to move on. I must be missing something...

  7. #17
    Member koolair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Stafford View Post
    ...
    When I do what you described nothing like what you write happens so some subtle details must be missing from the description. Based on what you wrote I'd expect that the buildings are no longer positioned relative to your survey data correctly.
    ...
    The buildings were also moved. This is because the entire project was thousands of miles away from the SP, according to the electrical consultant, everytime a linked architectural wall was moved, their wall hosted fixtures did not move as expected when the architectural model was updated. So the entire collaboration team moved their PBPs in their "clipped" state. Except mine and a couple others had to get unclipped and repositioned relative to my grids and levels such that it was "in the same spot" (relatively speaking) as the architectural model's PBP in relation to their grids and levels. So, once I reclipped my PBP, and manually overrid its location parameter values to match the architect's PBP location values, all the models fell into place. I guess maybe I really dont understand the nuts and bolts of what happened but it worked out.

  8. #18
    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    I remain unconvinced that was the cause because it is the fundamental purpose of the Survey Coordinate system to allow for it to be far from the Project Coordinate System. If what was done actually fixed the electrical consultant's issue then there is some new underlying bug in Revit now...and that's worrisome.
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  9. #19
    Member kubsix's Avatar
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    I think the result was they all ended up moving the SP to the same grid intersection. Abandoning the original SP. In affect a new 0,0 coordinate so that links by shared coordinates fell into place.

    They could of just moved the SP to that location instead of the round about way of unclipping the PBP, clipping, and type in 0,0.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #20
    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubsix View Post
    I think the result was they all ended up moving the SP to the same grid intersection.
    I think this is exactly what happened.

    Just turn off Shared Coordinates if it's all that bad and have just pick a grid intersection, and reorient the origin between all files. Easy peasy!

    -TZ

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