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Thread: Can I 3D model detailed insulation solutions (example) to avoid thermal bridging ?

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    Can I 3D model detailed insulation solutions (example) to avoid thermal bridging ?

    Hi,

    Am learning basic Revit drawing, in Lynda.com as I want to experiment with Rivet's analytical / simulation tools.


    2 days in, I start to wonder if it's possible to 3D model in details like insulating cellulose bricks, special balcony connections and much more that are used to avoid thermal bridging.. Because if that's impossible, Revit's thermal analysis tools would be totally useless for me.


    Used Autocad in college way back, now want to learn Revit to try and simulate / analyse a passive single family house


    cheers

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    Senior Member Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    Sure, what makes you think it is not?
    But you have to model it of course, so the thermal insulator at the bottom of your wall (cellenbeton I assume) would be a separate wall from the stuff on top of it. Same goes for the one between the floor and balcony (isokorf) you would have to model that and give it the right data.

    I even think that you should model it like it is going to be build, because if you don't whats the point of making a BIM?
    uaifestival likes this.

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    Well I am 2 days into a online course and kinda start to wonder.. the drawing all feels kinda standardised. Feels very strange ( ongemakkelijk if you're coming from 2D autoCAD... Also an image search of 3D Revit details doesn't give a lot of hope !

    But am sure it must be the learning curve.. am gonna stick with the course for some time longer

    Yeah I agree, analysing a model different from what you'll build seems kinda pointless !

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    Senior Member Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Maxiimum View Post
    Yeah I agree, analysing a model different from what you'll build seems kinda pointless !
    And not only analyzing would be pointless. A contractor uses the model to get data on how much material he needs to buy. If that Isokorf is not there, chances are he would not buy it.

    I guess that doing a course means stuff is standardized, that's what I remember from my course as well, but once you get into making families you can basically make anything. And there are lots of materials you can download from the web, for example see the attached Isokorf.
    Attached Files Attached Files
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    Cheers that does look impressive !

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    Senior Member Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    BUT they have types that are more then 4 MB per file and has so much detail. If you have a lot of those in your project that would slow down thing a lot.
    I would go for a box and maybe some rebar and that's it if I would be making one myself. The data is important, not the little arrow telling me where the balcony should be. They also have a file for every type and not 1 family with different types. With files that are 4 MB already I can understand that, but not what I would choose to make for sure.

  7. #7
    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Maxiimum
    ...Because if that's impossible, Revit's thermal analysis tools would be totally useless for me... ...Used Autocad in college way back, now want to learn Revit to try and simulate / analyse a passive single family house...
    FWIW, Revit use one of two methods to do analysis.

    One is macro, based on a collection of settings, for example exterior wall construction type etc. You could create dozens of analysis all based on subtle changes to these settings and varying basic massing forms for the building's shape.

    The other is micro, based on elements that are used in the model but it isn't looking at what we actually model inside a wall assembly. It uses the thermal properties the materials assigned to materials assigned to each assembly's layers. If the materials don't use the correct values then it is garbage in - garbage out (GIGO).

    If you look at the material properties built into Revit now and immediately know they are correct or wrong you may be a unicorn.

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    One thing most architects don't really understand is that thermal models are based on VERY simplified models, and this is the case for pretty much all thermal models and energy simulation engines I am aware of (IES, DOE.2, E+, eQUEST, Ecotect, Radiance, etc.). By this I mean that a wall in a thermal model, with it's thickness and different layers of construction is translated as a paper thin 2D surface only, with a resistance number associated with it that is used in the calculation (U-value). The engineers or the thermal model will only look at the overall assembly - including insulation and overall U-value - and assign that to the 2D single surface in their wall/floor/roof/window/door, and assign an infiltration value as well for losses. Whatever you model in 3D - regardless of how sophisticated it is - will not be considered or translated as such on the other end.
    snowyweston likes this.

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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asintoras View Post
    One of the many things most architects don't really understand
    Fixed that for you!

    Top marks on the rest.
    Robin Deurloo likes this.

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