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Thread: Documenting typical apartments

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Sits funny with me too, believe me.

    And the PDF import is horrible for anything but looking at it. Folks that REALLY want to screw up a project will trace over PDF's.

    Smart folks won't ever use it.
    There are myriad reasons to import PDFs for a drawing set that aren't drawings or drawing-related... for us, we need to customize our stat sheets on a regular basis so we need to keep everything in Excel and put it onto a Revit sheet. In the past (and on all of our current projects) we have to export to PDF from Excel and then create a PNG/JPG out of it. We also have city-required checklists and building code matrices which are PDFs and those need to be on certain sheets, so every time you tweak one you have to do the image conversion workflow. So for those reasons alone we're thrilled about PDF imports!

    In all my time with Revit I've never wanted a PDF vector import because of the possibility of screwing up, but at least once a day I'll curse the fact that I can't just place a PDF. So, different strokes for different folks

  2. #82
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Ahh. If thats how your stuff is set up, then im sure its awesome.

    My code and unit matrices are all in Revit, so i dont do the PNG / IMG workaround for anything other than UL assemblies, which i dont need the extra step for since i just PNG them from the website.

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    My ultimate revit wishlist would have the ability to make Custom Schedules that basically function like excel - let me create cells and cell formulas that reference other schedule cells, and let me format them any way I want. Full flexibility.

    But, of course that will never happen, because that's a niche use-case... but when you work for developers, they all have a different way of wanting the information so it's really hard to come up with a solid "standard" approach. A lot of my stat tables have completely disparate building elements that are presented in an easy-to-read format with all kinds of efficiencies and percentages calculated, so I've never been able to get a full-revit solution and from one week to the next I'll have to tweak the formulas depending on who's looking at it on a given day. It's easier for us to just dump it all into excel and do it there, but then we want it early in the drawing set. On really fast-moving projects it was easier to just feed the drawings into Indesign!

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    Thanks, Aaron! I just need to convince my firm that we should dimension window location off the overall plans instead of the unit plans. I think that makes a ton of sense and much less work than all the alternates that could arise from deliberate variation of exterior window placement. I believe that these generic walls are not included in your unit group, so is there any issue with coordinating modifications to the exterior envelope and the generic walls used for the unit groups? Or is at as simple as each unit that is modified by the exterior envelope becomes an alternate?

    Gregory

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boujou99 View Post
    Thanks, Aaron! I just need to convince my firm that we should dimension window location off the overall plans instead of the unit plans. I think that makes a ton of sense and much less work than all the alternates that could arise from deliberate variation of exterior window placement. I believe that these generic walls are not included in your unit group, so is there any issue with coordinating modifications to the exterior envelope and the generic walls used for the unit groups? Or is at as simple as each unit that is modified by the exterior envelope becomes an alternate?

    Gregory
    The only time a group needs an alternate is if (in the building) the envelope or special conditions are so different that the unit fundamentally needs to be different. In that case, the generic walls are still irrelevant (they aren't part of the group at all) but there may still need to be an alternate group type DEPENDING on how different it needs to be.

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    What do you dimension to relative to the demising/party walls? Finish face? Our contractors would prefer face of stud but thatís inconsistent relative to the face depending on Wall Type, shear, etc. But even there we donít change the layout based on demising wall changes so, technically not all type ďAĒ units are the same regardless of what else might make them slightly different. So far my only solution has been to not dimension across the door as thatís always been a clear separation in our designs from me side to the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
    What do you dimension to relative to the demising/party walls? Finish face? Our contractors would prefer face of stud but thatís inconsistent relative to the face depending on Wall Type, shear, etc. But even there we donít change the layout based on demising wall changes so, technically not all type ďAĒ units are the same regardless of what else might make them slightly different. So far my only solution has been to not dimension across the door as thatís always been a clear separation in our designs from me side to the other.
    Question doesn't really apply to me, because:

    1. My units start at face of demise wall, which means they do account for different types of demise walls. So a thicker demise wall on one side of a unit doesn't make that unit narrower. The next demise wall is just farther away.

    2. Dimensions go to face of walls as defined in partition types. Doesn't matter what "contractor would prefer." It isn't up to them.

    3. If a unit needs to be smaller because of a demise wall, it's a new unit type.

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    We are the contractor so it kinda does matter.

    So your buildings grow and shrink with changes to demising wall thickness? I assume youíve done these in wood frame, yes? Do you adjust units and wall locations after structural locates shear walls that require additional layers? And if the shear layer didnít run the depth of the unit (say to keep it out of the restrooms) would you make that a new unit type?

    Lots of ways to do this work, thatís for sure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
    We are the contractor so it kinda does matter.
    No, it doesn't. The reason it doesn't matter is because of how I document my units: those question don't matter, because every condition is accounted for regardless. Changing a demise wall thickness (the way I work) DOES NOT affect the size of the interior of the unit. The "units" are finish face (of partition) to FF of partition.
    So your buildings grow and shrink with changes to demising wall thickness?
    I guess that's semantics, really. Either the building grows, OR a different unit type is created, that is slightly narrower. Either way, the end result is the same.

    I assume youíve done these in wood frame, yes?
    All the time. Wood, and concrete, wood and concrete, concrete and metal stud, and steel and metal stud.

    Do you adjust units and wall locations after structural locates shear walls that require additional layers? And if the shear layer didnít run the depth of the unit (say to keep it out of the restrooms) would you make that a new unit type?
    The tail doesn't wag the dog. If they DONT want to move the units down when a shear wall gets placed, we make a new (slightly narrowed) unit type. No big deal. If that particular owner cares more about identical SF numbers, they shift. Either way it doesn't "matter," as we are just discussing how to do it technically.

    If the shear wall doesn't run the full length of the unit, it depends: it's a new unit type IF the space gets added in to the unit, for something. If additional ancillary framing and sheathing is added (colassal waste of space, but I've seen it) then it's considered part of the demise wall (not.in the group).



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    How many unit types do you have in a typical project? Or how many more do you end up with compared to the original design intent?

    Youíre gonna laugh at this but our construction PMs think if we show them more units, even if many are just variations in width, it will cost more. If it does, and it shouldnít, itís only because bidders arenít looking closely enough. Seems silly but theyíre in charge. :shrug:

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