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Thread: Documenting typical apartments

  1. #11
    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the good information.

    No one mentioned Design Options. I have used Phases for legends but am now employing Dan Stine's Design Options method on a project for scheduling doors and windows and it is working well. Combine that with Gordon Price's check schedule https://www.revitforum.org/architect...n-options.html and I think I am a fan. I am wondering how that might work with an apartment type matrix garden. Are there any foreseen downsides to using Design Options?

    Aaron: Do you have to set your "IsUnitCloud" parameter for every item within the unit group to prevent doubling up in schedules such as door, FF+E etc?


    Thanks in advance.

  2. #12
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    It would be a mistake (my opinion) to try doing Unit Documentation within Design Options.

    You only have to deal with IsUnitCloud *IF* there are things you dont want to count, and you are counting specific instances in the PROJECT. But since most of the firms i talk to document Units based on object types, and list them by unit, it tends to not come up very much. But yes, you do it in each unit. Doesnt take long, as you just select everything and check the box.

  3. #13
    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    Thank you.

    I see I can't have a Yes/No parameter to Vary By Group Instance, so I am guessing you have used a text param. I have tested using our FilterObject text param that does Vary By Group Instance with its value set to ISUNITCLOUD and it works fine filtering on that value for a schedule.

    Applying the parameter value to all the elements in the group was pretty painless once the Room Separation lines were filtered out.

    Not being able to apply the parameter value to Room Separation lines does mean that I can't completely hide the group in a view by using a filter, which is a shame. I have not been a user of Scope Boxes, so I might have to investigate them in order to use this technique.

    Putting the unit cloud group instances on a different Workset (instead of using the ISUNITCLOUD param) does allow them to be hidden completely in views, but I can't filter elements in a schedule by Workset.

    And I guess there must be some operator discipline in maintaining the ISUNITCLOUD parameter in the groups as they evolve over the life of the project.

    Thanks again for your help.

  4. #14
    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post

    I don't include the exterior envelope walls in the unit groups themselves, which cuts down on the number of groups considerably.
    We find that it is best for our apartment groups not to contain exterior envelope, inter-tenancy walls or core elements. They are just the repeatable internals. Therefore, I think it might be best to duplicate the entire floor plate to the unit cloud area and then document the units within.

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    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    Does the ISUNITCLOUD parameter perform any function apart from filtering in schedules?
    If not, then could the unit cloud apartment groups collection be placed on one (or more) levels way underground? Or possibly way up in the air?
    With this method I can filter the schedule By Level > Is Above > MyUnitCloudLevel. This will remove the instances of items in the unit cloud from schedules.
    Might negate the need for the parameter. Won't need to remember to apply it whenever I add new items to the group. Won't need a Phase. Won't need a Design Option. Works with or without Scope Boxes: Could quickly set them to a new Workset which can control visibility.
    Any downsides to this method please?
    Last edited by anthonyB; June 14th, 2017 at 10:07 PM.

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    Love this discussion! I'm having a bit of trouble following though Aaron, hope you don't mind me dragging this discussion back to life.

    - Are you essentially modelling everything on the ground floor?
    - Each unit is a group, and then each group is placed around the model? If that's the case, what about party walls and keeping coordinated with structural changes in the building - how do you keep them updated without going nuts on manual coordination? What about model elements (like toilets or showers) that might be floor-dependent? And what about walls that maybe need to be taller because of varying floor-to-floor heights?

    Our struggle is often that we have a context model in our project, so it becomes a challenge to model things outside of the footprint of the building... but I do really like the idea in principle! Our other thought is to just have all the units in their own file. Since we don't have a template for your kind of method, we could also just do typicals in-place. I don't think the project needs to be 100% BIM so rather than having 50 iterations of one typical unit, we can place it once and refer to that plan in the other units.

  7. #17
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarchitect View Post
    Love this discussion! I'm having a bit of trouble following though Aaron, hope you don't mind me dragging this discussion back to life.

    - Are you essentially modelling everything on the ground floor?
    I apologize, i dont fully understand the question. Im not modeling *everything* on the First Floor, unless you are talking about "everything" in the Unit Cloud: All of the "Unit cloud" units are on Level 1.

    But they are also copied throughout the entire building, on ALL levels, so that the entire building is modeled fully.

    - Each unit is a group, and then each group is placed around the model? If that's the case, what about party walls and keeping coordinated with structural changes in the building - how do you keep them updated without going nuts on manual coordination?
    Party walls do not go in the Groups, for us. Why is manual coordination making people "go nuts?" If major structural shear walls are changing sizes and locations THAT much, chances are you are at a point in the project where the units arent fully propagated yet. Even if they are, whats the issue?
    What about model elements (like toilets or showers) that might be floor-dependent? And what about walls that maybe need to be taller because of varying floor-to-floor heights?
    There are no Floor Dependent objects in my library. Toilets are unhosted. Showers are unhosted. There is no good reason FOR them to be hosted, or even face based.

    Our struggle is often that we have a context model in our project, so it becomes a challenge to model things outside of the footprint of the building... but I do really like the idea in principle! Our other thought is to just have all the units in their own file. Since we don't have a template for your kind of method, we could also just do typicals in-place. I don't think the project needs to be 100% BIM so rather than having 50 iterations of one typical unit, we can place it once and refer to that plan in the other units.
    You can move it away from the context, or you can filter it out using the IsUnitGroup method. That way it doesnt interfere with your context, for sure.

    You dont want the units in a separate file. Take it from someone whos done it many many many times. Its ****.
    sdbrownaia likes this.

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    Member tidalwave1's Avatar
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    I wish that some of the firms I did multi-family projects with had Aaron's template!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tidalwave1 View Post
    I wish that some of the firms I did multi-family projects with had Aaron's template!
    I wish I had the template period!
    tidalwave1 and CapnMac like this.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    I apologize, i dont fully understand the question. Im not modeling *everything* on the First Floor, unless you are talking about "everything" in the Unit Cloud: All of the "Unit cloud" units are on Level 1.
    But they are also copied throughout the entire building, on ALL levels, so that the entire building is modeled fully.
    Yeah, I guess that's what i meant - all of the unit cloud. I guess since I haven't seen the template in action I have a hard time imagining how it works in practice! We always have a 5.0m first floor in our multi-res buildings so it's awkward to model typical units there - have you ever made a set of sub-levels for your units? IE, below the lowest floor of the building?


    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Party walls do not go in the Groups, for us. Why is manual coordination making people "go nuts?" If major structural shear walls are changing sizes and locations THAT much, chances are you are at a point in the project where the units arent fully propagated yet. Even if they are, whats the issue?
    Maybe it's a holdover from the dream of "less manual work" that BIM had always held as a promise - we get the structural revit model from the structural engineers, so it goes right into the model where it's supposed to go. if I have a bunch of units dissociated from that, it gets tricky. Obviously it's not that big of a deal, but it's a deal nonetheless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    There are no Floor Dependent objects in my library. Toilets are unhosted. Showers are unhosted. There is no good reason FOR them to be hosted, or even face based.
    I definitely prefer that approach... i even tend to use non-model families for all my fixtures, just 2D symbols, because who needs 500 toilets around the building when you will never once need/want to see them in 3D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    You can move it away from the context, or you can filter it out using the IsUnitGroup method. That way it doesnt interfere with your context, for sure.
    Can you elaborate on the "IsUnitGroup" method? I'm not familiar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    You dont want the units in a separate file. Take it from someone whos done it many many many times. Its ****.
    Haha, yeah I've been trying to tell people that - moved a wall? Oops there's 50 errors.
    But what's the secret to preventing the groups from going nuts? I have area boundaries in groups copied up and down my building, and one day when I opened the file it decided that every group on a different floor needed a different name... it was a headache to clean up that mess. And then it did it again!! I wanted to cry. But I have no idea what caused the error.
    Is there a best practice for unit groups? I'm assuming you don't want anything that touches a party/exterior wall having a join condition, but is there anything else to be aware of?

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