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Thread: Documenting typical apartments

  1. #91
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
    How many unit types do you have in a typical project? Or how many more do you end up with compared to the original design intent?

    You’re gonna laugh at this but our construction PMs think if we show them more units, even if many are just variations in width, it will cost more. If it does, and it shouldn’t, it’s only because bidders aren’t looking closely enough. Seems silly but they’re in charge. :shrug:
    Well I don't have any answer for that kind of stupidity, nor should I. I mean, when you ask a question and presuppose the answer based on one groups predisposition, it sets up a false equivilancy: it doesn't make their viewpoint any more valid. It's just something they said.

    Re: number of unit types: varies wildly based on size of project. One of my clients (who works exactly how I recommend) has a few 30 story cityblock wide and deep projects. I'd guess they have over 40 unit types each? But small midrises might only have 10-15?

    What's the difference? If a GC came to me and said number of unit width variations made the cost go up, and I was representing (or.making recommendations to) the owner, that GC is fired. LOL.

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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elton williams View Post
    Has this been fixed?
    Was I the only one who had this issue?
    Quote Originally Posted by elton williams View Post
    maybe no one else has this issue but I still do. Lol.

    Alas, no, we still have the problem - and it's still not been fixed.


    (at least up to 2019, I've not bothered even downloading 2020 yet)

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    The only time a group needs an alternate is if (in the building) the envelope or special conditions are so different that the unit fundamentally needs to be different. In that case, the generic walls are still irrelevant (they aren't part of the group at all) but there may still need to be an alternate group type DEPENDING on how different it needs to be.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
    Okay. If I have an A1 unit on the corner of the building and the designer bumps out an exterior wall by 1', would you consider this a special condition? Would you just dimension this on my floor plans, instead of creating an alternate? Not really a technical question, but it would help me understand how others are defining what makes an alternate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    The only time a group needs an alternate is if (in the building) the envelope or special conditions are so different that the unit fundamentally needs to be different. In that case, the generic walls are still irrelevant (they aren't part of the group at all) but there may still need to be an alternate group type DEPENDING on how different it needs to be.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
    If I have an A1 unit on the corner of the building and the designer bumps out the exterior wall by a foot, would you consider this a special condition and create an alternate unit? Or could we simply document this on the floor plans and consider it a typical A1 unit that will rent for slightly higher price?

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boujou99 View Post
    Okay. If I have an A1 unit on the corner of the building and the designer bumps out an exterior wall by 1', would you consider this a special condition? Would you just dimension this on my floor plans, instead of creating an alternate? Not really a technical question, but it would help me understand how others are defining what makes an alternate.
    The question needs to be asked the OTHER way:

    Does that 1'-0" bump out make the unit different enough that someone (client) WANTS to see it called out as a different unit?

    Thats part 1 of the question. If the answer to that is a yes, then of course it needs to be a different Group. If the answer is NO, then we move on to part 2 of the question:

    Are there things IN the unit AFFECTED by that bumped out wall?

    If so: Its a different Unit Type. For me, that includes electrical/data fixture placement. So if there are some on the exterior wall, its a different unit type.

    EDIT: For me, BTW, the answer to that really will depend on what the bump out DID to the unit. If its just an exterior bump out, and the interior walls didnt change at all, then- unless the client demands it- it wont be a different unit. But if the bump out happens midway through the unit, and they are gaining that space, then its going to need to be a different unit type, of course.
    Last edited by Twiceroadsfool; May 13th, 2019 at 03:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    The question needs to be asked the OTHER way:

    Does that 1'-0" bump out make the unit different enough that someone (client) WANTS to see it called out as a different unit?

    Thats part 1 of the question. If the answer to that is a yes, then of course it needs to be a different Group. If the answer is NO, then we move on to part 2 of the question:

    Are there things IN the unit AFFECTED by that bumped out wall?

    If so: Its a different Unit Type. For me, that includes electrical/data fixture placement. So if there are some on the exterior wall, its a different unit type.

    EDIT: For me, BTW, the answer to that really will depend on what the bump out DID to the unit. If its just an exterior bump out, and the interior walls didnt change at all, then- unless the client demands it- it wont be a different unit. But if the bump out happens midway through the unit, and they are gaining that space, then its going to need to be a different unit type, of course.
    Thank you for simplifying this common scenario for me. I understand now and just spoke to one of our Reviewers, who said we typically make considerable changes to units with special conditions. Therefore, it will most likely clearly be an alternate or a typical.
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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boujou99 View Post
    Thank you for simplifying this common scenario for me. I understand now and just spoke to one of our Reviewers, who said we typically make considerable changes to units with special conditions. Therefore, it will most likely clearly be an alternate or a typical.
    Awesome! On the same page then.

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    Senior Member DavidLarson's Avatar
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    What pitfalls may come about from keeping all of the units outside of the main project then loading them as groups? A unit cloud to some might as well be The Worst Thing Ever accompanied by much wailing and gnashing of teeth. One can assume that several people with different ideas on how to do modeling would be involved in the project.

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    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    Done right? None.

    Done poorly? Lots.

    But isn't that true of most things in life?
    tidalwave1 likes this.

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    Forum Addict sdbrownaia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLarson View Post
    What pitfalls may come about from keeping all of the units outside of the main project then loading them as groups? A unit cloud to some might as well be The Worst Thing Ever accompanied by much wailing and gnashing of teeth. One can assume that several people with different ideas on how to do modeling would be involved in the project.
    The trick to that is how do you assure the users actually update the ones outside the main project and not edit group in the project, what if they edit a material in the host? they have to remember to do it in the outside project. Its a disaster waiting to happen. However, I have done that on ONE job where we had multiple apartment buildings on the same site that shared the same unit types, in that case I did have the groups as sep files, but I wouldn't do it again. Way too much management headaches.
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